6 ms·

I'm just going to leave a comment to contrast the usual negativity. What I like about this is: - The developers are not attempting to reinvent the wheel. - M

by DCKing 12y ago

I'm just going to leave a comment to contrast the usual negativity. What I like about this is: - The developers are not attempting to reinvent the wheel. - Material Design is well-regarded on mobile devices, and it's interesting to see what you can do with its ideas on the desktop. - They clearly pick technologies that are the way forward on the Linux desktop: Wayland and Qt+QML. It's great that these things are maturing to the point that we can start leaving behind X and that it's clear that Qt has won the toolkit war. - Focused approach of not (yet) supporting different distros, but (like Elementary OS) an attempt to focus on getting it to work well for one system configuration. I hope these guys can put in the time and effort to make something out of this. It seems they are making a couple of good decisions already.

nly 12y ago
> Material Design is well-regarded on mobile devices Says who? Isn't Lollypop all MD based? I've heard quite a bit of 'meh boring' reactions to it
- PaulHoule 12y ago
  I just got Lollipop on my 2nd generation Nexus 7 and overall it seems like a downgrade instead of an upgrade.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - 0xFFC 12y ago
    I don't have Android Lollipop and I am really curious , can you explain a little further?
    - PaulHoule 12y ago
      The new keyboard looks awful. There is some kind of network problem that causes 3 to 10 second latencies when I look up web pages at home with DSL but is not so bad at the gym with cable. I think DNS is involved. It used to be that a left hand swipe and a right hand swipe would bring up different menus but now I have to swipe multiple times to count through the menus. It's that kind of hamhanded design that make people think bigger devices are unwieldy
      - Gracana 12y ago
        On my first edition Nexus 7 it has slowed down everything considerably, it is borderline unbearable to use it for anything now, even just browsing web pages is an uncomfortable experience. The lagginess combined with the double-gestures required for unlocking and getting to settings is especially frustrating. I used to love this device, but now I feel like it's working against me.
      - redacted 12y ago
        While not your biggest issue by far: you can change the colour scheme of the Lollipop keyboard in its settings. "Material Dark" is a far more attractive setting (and I think the "Holo" settings will make it look like the older keyboard).
  - prapam2 12y ago
    I have it on 2012 and 2013 N7 along with N4. Really pleased with it. My dad uses the 2012 N7 and he was wondering whether i got him a new device! And i really like the new keyboard. I think my mistakes have been reduced.
- hackmiester 12y ago
  I primarily have heard reactions to how buggy the OS is. I haven't heard many complaints about the design concepts.
  - tracker1 12y ago
    I tend not to criticize design decisions unless they are just plain asinine... Mostly if it is more of a matter of taste vs comfort level. I won't reject new designs just because they are uncomfortable. There are only a handful of design changes in Android 5 that piss me off... I don't mind having email and gmail's apps combined. Two irksome things, is that the account switching circles are all but useless, I have 5 email apps, it only shows two bubbles, and there is no way to really tell which one is what. I can use the dropdown, but once you have more than two accounts, it should only show the dropdown picker. The second, is there doesn't seem to be a way to set an email as unread... I often will peak at a mail, and mark it unread to get back to. I know that inbox is working to get around things like this, but inbox really doesn't fit my workflow. Aside from that, the keyboard changes don't bug me. Even the double swipe for settings really isn't that bad. I really don't do much on my phone though... I removed facebook for shoving not one but two spyware apps down my throat, I removed most of the heavy battery offenders, and tend not to install apps that ask for permissions they have absolutely no need for... (flashlight apps that want sd and contact access, I get they need camera access for the flash)... It will really be an interesting few years as phones approach today's desktop capabilities... I think remote displays will be a next thing... car interfaces especially..
    - wodenokoto 12y ago
      So your main complaint is that it is not optimized for users with 5 different email apps? I have 3 on my iPhone, and I thought that is excessive.
      - tracker1 12y ago
        No, my complaint is that with more than two email accounts, you can't tell one from another on the menu screen... there's no point in having them displayed that way at all as opposed to just keeping the drop down.
- andrewflnr 12y ago
  'meh boring' is a lot better than 'oh god help me'. A lot.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    But 'meh boring' is not the same as well-regarded.
    - ddoolin 12y ago
      Isn't the point of a good UI to not get in the way? If that's the case, then whether or not it's been well-regarded might be best determined by the "meh, boring" factor, regardless of how much users/critics/etc are aware of that fact.
      - andrewflnr 12y ago
        In other words, an absence of 'oh god help me' ought to be well-regarded if it isn't already. :)
- alrs 12y ago
  Android 5.0 breaks the Nook app and Twidere outright, and damages F-Droid. It's also crazy-slow. Avoid, for now.
  - andybak 12y ago
    Crazy slow on what? My Nexus 5 is as fast as always - possibly even slightly nippier.
    - achamayou 12y ago
      The animations feel slower than they did before, but it's apparently a deliberate choice, not a performance issue. Scaling them at .5x in the Dev Options menu make the whole UI feel much snappier on my Nexus 5.
sz4kerto 12y ago
> it's interesting to see what you can do with its ideas on the desktop. I am one of the negative voices but you're right here: it's certainly worth a try.
lkesteloot 12y ago
> to contrast the usual negativity Thank you.
laumars 12y ago
Has Qt one the toolkit war? I thought most applications and desktop environments were still GTK based (though I can't comment how widespread the adoption of GTK3 has been). I mean, I hope you're right because I really do prefer Qt over GTK (both as a developer and as a user). But my experiences as a user would also suggest that GTK is anything but an underdog.
- not_with_retard 12y ago
  Qt most definitely won the toolkit war. Multiple applications are switching to it from GTK.
  - laumars 12y ago
    There's also a large repository of software that isn't switching. "Won" implies the war is over; that Qt has earned a monopoly on Linux (or at least the de facto standard) but that's not the case here. At least not yet, maybe in a few years - though I can't see that either personally. Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but "won" seems a little too optimistic. Particularly on a platform that's famed for it choice / fragmentation (depending on which side of the fence you sit hehe).
    - bratsche 12y ago
      > "Won" implies the war is over It also implies that there was actually a war, and that there is now not. Did gtk+ suddenly stop being developed because Qt won some imaginary war dreamed up by people who don't develop either toolkit?
      - DCKing 12y ago
        Wow, I didn't expect people would read so much in my poetic language. Qt used to be relegated to KDE on Unix but is now also used by Unity and LXDE. People prefer using Qt because it is much more cross platform friendly than GTK+ and has great developer tools. Qt seems to be the future of the Linux desktop at this point. So excusez-les-mots.
Animats 12y ago
Material Design is well-regarded on mobile devices It is? Wasn't it shipped just last week?
- SwellJoe 12y ago
  I've enjoyed it for almost a week on my tablet. I find it well-regardable. On a more serious note, it is well-regarded by at least a large number of well-regarded designers and UI people. Material design has kinda swept the blogosphere in designer/UI circles. And, Google don't play when it comes to usable UIs; they put serious resources into figuring out how people interact with their software, so if they say, "This is good enough to be our UI standard for the next several years in every product we ship." then the odds are, it really is pretty good.
  - gone35 12y ago
    [Google] put serious resources into figuring out how people interact with their software, so if they say, "This is good enough to be our UI standard for the next several years in _every_ product we ship." then the odds are, it really is pretty good. Not necessarily[1]. Especially in cases like this, where the org is large enough, the cash is endless enough, and the goal is fuzzy enough; that principal-agent problems are inevitably bound to prevail. Think Pontiac Aztec. Or Lotus Notes. Or, for that matter, the all-new Google Maps(TM). [1] http://brousseau.info/pdf/cours/grossman_hart_83.pdf http://brousseau.info/pdf/cours/grossman_hart_83.pdf
    - SwellJoe 12y ago
      Not necessarily...but, the odds are good. I do find I'm very angry at Google Maps a lot of the time, though, so maybe Google is getting worse at interfaces and Material Design is going to go down in history as a massive failure. People seem to be tolerating Windows 8 "flat" design, though, and that is pretty much a nightmare for usability as far as I'm able to discern. In short, I don't now what's right and wrong, but I know what I like. I like my new tablet, and I dislike most other "flat" designs I've used in the build up to Material Design.
wooger 12y ago
I can't dispute Qt becoming more popular for apps, and even DEs, but I still find that Qt apps AND all the Qt DEs on linux and BSD are horrifically ugly by default. That is harming adoption of Qt more than anything. It's likely just bad taste and poor theming, but nevertheless, I find that 99% of the apps I use are GTK, and I'd always pick a GTK based DE (Gnome Shell, maybe mate) over KDE or Lumina.

by DCKing 12y ago

nly 12y ago

> Material Design is well-regarded on mobile devices Says who? Isn't Lollypop all MD based? I've heard quite a bit of 'meh boring' reactions to it

PaulHoule 12y ago
I just got Lollipop on my 2nd generation Nexus 7 and overall it seems like a downgrade instead of an upgrade.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- 0xFFC 12y ago
  I don't have Android Lollipop and I am really curious , can you explain a little further?
  - PaulHoule 12y ago
    The new keyboard looks awful. There is some kind of network problem that causes 3 to 10 second latencies when I look up web pages at home with DSL but is not so bad at the gym with cable. I think DNS is involved. It used to be that a left hand swipe and a right hand swipe would bring up different menus but now I have to swipe multiple times to count through the menus. It's that kind of hamhanded design that make people think bigger devices are unwieldy
    - Gracana 12y ago
      On my first edition Nexus 7 it has slowed down everything considerably, it is borderline unbearable to use it for anything now, even just browsing web pages is an uncomfortable experience. The lagginess combined with the double-gestures required for unlocking and getting to settings is especially frustrating. I used to love this device, but now I feel like it's working against me.
    - redacted 12y ago
      While not your biggest issue by far: you can change the colour scheme of the Lollipop keyboard in its settings. "Material Dark" is a far more attractive setting (and I think the "Holo" settings will make it look like the older keyboard).
- prapam2 12y ago
  I have it on 2012 and 2013 N7 along with N4. Really pleased with it. My dad uses the 2012 N7 and he was wondering whether i got him a new device! And i really like the new keyboard. I think my mistakes have been reduced.
hackmiester 12y ago
I primarily have heard reactions to how buggy the OS is. I haven't heard many complaints about the design concepts.
- tracker1 12y ago
  I tend not to criticize design decisions unless they are just plain asinine... Mostly if it is more of a matter of taste vs comfort level. I won't reject new designs just because they are uncomfortable. There are only a handful of design changes in Android 5 that piss me off... I don't mind having email and gmail's apps combined. Two irksome things, is that the account switching circles are all but useless, I have 5 email apps, it only shows two bubbles, and there is no way to really tell which one is what. I can use the dropdown, but once you have more than two accounts, it should only show the dropdown picker. The second, is there doesn't seem to be a way to set an email as unread... I often will peak at a mail, and mark it unread to get back to. I know that inbox is working to get around things like this, but inbox really doesn't fit my workflow. Aside from that, the keyboard changes don't bug me. Even the double swipe for settings really isn't that bad. I really don't do much on my phone though... I removed facebook for shoving not one but two spyware apps down my throat, I removed most of the heavy battery offenders, and tend not to install apps that ask for permissions they have absolutely no need for... (flashlight apps that want sd and contact access, I get they need camera access for the flash)... It will really be an interesting few years as phones approach today's desktop capabilities... I think remote displays will be a next thing... car interfaces especially..
  - wodenokoto 12y ago
    So your main complaint is that it is not optimized for users with 5 different email apps? I have 3 on my iPhone, and I thought that is excessive.
    - tracker1 12y ago
      No, my complaint is that with more than two email accounts, you can't tell one from another on the menu screen... there's no point in having them displayed that way at all as opposed to just keeping the drop down.
andrewflnr 12y ago
'meh boring' is a lot better than 'oh god help me'. A lot.
- threeseed 12y ago
  But 'meh boring' is not the same as well-regarded.
  - ddoolin 12y ago
    Isn't the point of a good UI to not get in the way? If that's the case, then whether or not it's been well-regarded might be best determined by the "meh, boring" factor, regardless of how much users/critics/etc are aware of that fact.
    - andrewflnr 12y ago
      In other words, an absence of 'oh god help me' ought to be well-regarded if it isn't already. :)
alrs 12y ago
Android 5.0 breaks the Nook app and Twidere outright, and damages F-Droid. It's also crazy-slow. Avoid, for now.
- andybak 12y ago
  Crazy slow on what? My Nexus 5 is as fast as always - possibly even slightly nippier.
  - achamayou 12y ago
    The animations feel slower than they did before, but it's apparently a deliberate choice, not a performance issue. Scaling them at .5x in the Dev Options menu make the whole UI feel much snappier on my Nexus 5.

sz4kerto 12y ago

> it's interesting to see what you can do with its ideas on the desktop. I am one of the negative voices but you're right here: it's certainly worth a try.

lkesteloot 12y ago

> to contrast the usual negativity Thank you.

laumars 12y ago

Has Qt one the toolkit war? I thought most applications and desktop environments were still GTK based (though I can't comment how widespread the adoption of GTK3 has been). I mean, I hope you're right because I really do prefer Qt over GTK (both as a developer and as a user). But my experiences as a user would also suggest that GTK is anything but an underdog.

not_with_retard 12y ago
Qt most definitely won the toolkit war. Multiple applications are switching to it from GTK.
- laumars 12y ago
  There's also a large repository of software that isn't switching. "Won" implies the war is over; that Qt has earned a monopoly on Linux (or at least the de facto standard) but that's not the case here. At least not yet, maybe in a few years - though I can't see that either personally. Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but "won" seems a little too optimistic. Particularly on a platform that's famed for it choice / fragmentation (depending on which side of the fence you sit hehe).
  - bratsche 12y ago
    > "Won" implies the war is over It also implies that there was actually a war, and that there is now not. Did gtk+ suddenly stop being developed because Qt won some imaginary war dreamed up by people who don't develop either toolkit?
    - DCKing 12y ago
      Wow, I didn't expect people would read so much in my poetic language. Qt used to be relegated to KDE on Unix but is now also used by Unity and LXDE. People prefer using Qt because it is much more cross platform friendly than GTK+ and has great developer tools. Qt seems to be the future of the Linux desktop at this point. So excusez-les-mots.

Animats 12y ago

Material Design is well-regarded on mobile devices It is? Wasn't it shipped just last week?

SwellJoe 12y ago
I've enjoyed it for almost a week on my tablet. I find it well-regardable. On a more serious note, it is well-regarded by at least a large number of well-regarded designers and UI people. Material design has kinda swept the blogosphere in designer/UI circles. And, Google don't play when it comes to usable UIs; they put serious resources into figuring out how people interact with their software, so if they say, "This is good enough to be our UI standard for the next several years in every product we ship." then the odds are, it really is pretty good.
- gone35 12y ago
  [Google] put serious resources into figuring out how people interact with their software, so if they say, "This is good enough to be our UI standard for the next several years in _every_ product we ship." then the odds are, it really is pretty good. Not necessarily[1]. Especially in cases like this, where the org is large enough, the cash is endless enough, and the goal is fuzzy enough; that principal-agent problems are inevitably bound to prevail. Think Pontiac Aztec. Or Lotus Notes. Or, for that matter, the all-new Google Maps(TM). [1] http://brousseau.info/pdf/cours/grossman_hart_83.pdf http://brousseau.info/pdf/cours/grossman_hart_83.pdf
  - SwellJoe 12y ago
    Not necessarily...but, the odds are good. I do find I'm very angry at Google Maps a lot of the time, though, so maybe Google is getting worse at interfaces and Material Design is going to go down in history as a massive failure. People seem to be tolerating Windows 8 "flat" design, though, and that is pretty much a nightmare for usability as far as I'm able to discern. In short, I don't now what's right and wrong, but I know what I like. I like my new tablet, and I dislike most other "flat" designs I've used in the build up to Material Design.

wooger 12y ago

I can't dispute Qt becoming more popular for apps, and even DEs, but I still find that Qt apps AND all the Qt DEs on linux and BSD are horrifically ugly by default. That is harming adoption of Qt more than anything. It's likely just bad taste and poor theming, but nevertheless, I find that 99% of the apps I use are GTK, and I'd always pick a GTK based DE (Gnome Shell, maybe mate) over KDE or Lumina.