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I don't think it is that the pilots did or did not realize the stall. The stall alarm went off 75 times. The problem was they were not aware of their pitch for

by Evolved 12y ago

I don't think it is that the pilots did or did not realize the stall. The stall alarm went off 75 times. The problem was they were not aware of their pitch for some reason. They must have thought they were heading towards the ocean due to the stall alarm combined with seeing very low air speed reports from the sensors when in fact it was the opposite as the airspeed was fine but the junior pilot kept pulling back on the stick which induced and worsened the ascending stall. This is why I was asking about gyroscopes in the planes in enough locations to accurately tell a pilot "hey, I know your airspeed reads very low and the stall alarm is going off but you're not stalling. Lock the throttles and hold the plane level until the airspeed returns."

lsh123 12y ago
It is called "attitude indicator" and there are multiple AIs installed on larger planes. The problem is that a pilot need to determine what exactly failed: either airspeed indicator, or horoscopes, or both, or something else entirely.
Evolved 12y ago
Ish123, I can't reply to your comment but you're exactly right[1] and I can't help but wonder if pilots are trained this way, someone like me (I have never flown any kind of plane my entire life) and you came to this conclusion then why did they react the way they did? The whole situation just seems so simply avoidable. Then again, I'm not flying a huge plane with hundreds of people on it in darkness with pounding thunder/rain/lightning and all sorts of gizmos blinking and making noise at me. It almost seems like something else should be added to the training curriculum and routinely tested that hardens pilots nerves and prepares them for some of the most stressful situations they could ever encounter such as before grunts go off to combat. [1]http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424125/flight-447s-fatal-attitude-problem/ http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424125/flight-447s-fata...
- lsh123 12y ago
  Handling emergencies is a big part of initial and recurring training for pilots. I can't speculate "why" pilots didn't handle the situation the right way but based on the Air France response to this crash I believe the main cause is too much reliance on automation and lack of actual hand-flying. Pilots found themselves way out of their comfort zone and it impacted their ability to make good decisions. If you are interested to learn about "too much automation" problem there is a very good (and funny) talk given 15+ years ago: http://vimeo.com/64502012 http://vimeo.com/64502012
ekianjo 12y ago
So how do you feel about a pilot pulling the stick when hes aware of the stall? Thats still incompetence no matter how you try to turn it around.

by Evolved 12y ago

lsh123 12y ago

It is called "attitude indicator" and there are multiple AIs installed on larger planes. The problem is that a pilot need to determine what exactly failed: either airspeed indicator, or horoscopes, or both, or something else entirely.

Evolved 12y ago

Ish123, I can't reply to your comment but you're exactly right[1] and I can't help but wonder if pilots are trained this way, someone like me (I have never flown any kind of plane my entire life) and you came to this conclusion then why did they react the way they did? The whole situation just seems so simply avoidable. Then again, I'm not flying a huge plane with hundreds of people on it in darkness with pounding thunder/rain/lightning and all sorts of gizmos blinking and making noise at me. It almost seems like something else should be added to the training curriculum and routinely tested that hardens pilots nerves and prepares them for some of the most stressful situations they could ever encounter such as before grunts go off to combat. [1]http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424125/flight-447s-fatal-attitude-problem/ http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424125/flight-447s-fata...

lsh123 12y ago
Handling emergencies is a big part of initial and recurring training for pilots. I can't speculate "why" pilots didn't handle the situation the right way but based on the Air France response to this crash I believe the main cause is too much reliance on automation and lack of actual hand-flying. Pilots found themselves way out of their comfort zone and it impacted their ability to make good decisions. If you are interested to learn about "too much automation" problem there is a very good (and funny) talk given 15+ years ago: http://vimeo.com/64502012 http://vimeo.com/64502012

ekianjo 12y ago

So how do you feel about a pilot pulling the stick when hes aware of the stall? Thats still incompetence no matter how you try to turn it around.