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WoW flattened MMORPG gameplay into a linear experience that bored me right out of the genre. Ultima Online, on the other hand, was such an expansive and intera

WoW flattened MMORPG gameplay into a linear experience that bored me right out of the genre. Ultima Online, on the other hand, was such an expansive and interactive world. You didn't choose your interactions based on personal preference. There was always the threat of another real life player coming to kill you, which created a sort of camaraderie in hunting grounds. You may not know someone, but suddenly he'd come to your rush if a murderer approached, and if you were lucky you both ended up outnumbering the murderer and you'd walk away with his loot. You wouldn't even know the person but you'd end up sharing an intense experience together where the stakes were high (if you died, you lost EVERYTHING). So many friendships were made that way. It was a different experience that was about more than levels and raiding groups and elite loot. It was a true social space where your actions affected other players experiences, for better or worse. To me, this is the soul of the MMO, and exactly what WoW lacks.

broodbucket 12y ago
EVE Online has just about everything you just mentioned, and is doing just fine. I prefer the WoW model, and so do the majority based on the numbers, but there is still a lively community for that type of gameplay.
- NovaS1X 12y ago
  I played WoW for a good 4-6 years. Had a lot of fun but eventually it became easy, grindy, and just lost it' luster. I've been playing EVE since about 2007 now and it's the only thing keeping me playing MMOs let alone video games. Then again EVE isn't really a game it's just a strange branch of real life.
  - RickHull 12y ago
    > Then again EVE isn't really a game it's just a strange branch of real life. True, in that it's very complex, and it does reward an analytical approach, which may or may not accord with one's own real life. Eve is a fantastic hobby, in that it is intellectually demanding, time consuming, skill rewarding, and an emotional investment. I can't recommend it but I'd certainly suggest it for whatever it is that ails ya.
  - saraid216 12y ago
    > Then again EVE isn't really a game it's just a strange branch of real life. That's a statement you can make about every game.
- debaserab2 12y ago
  I really should try Eve, from what I hear it's pretty awesome. I'm just not that into the spaceship thing. Still, from the stories I've heard, it does sound like it has the experience I'm looking for. I'm just disappointed in the options available.
  - Tangokat 12y ago
    If you want to see what battles are like you should watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0 It is a new trailer CCP (makers of Eve) made with real player communication.
  - kybernetyk 12y ago
    > I'm just not that into the spaceship thing That spaceship thing is just a graphical representation to a very complex social simulation. Most people would keep playing EVE if CCP changed it into "Goat Simulator Online". As someone told me once: EVE online is about spaceships like astronomy is about telescopes. (Of course he butchered a famous quote there).
meowface 12y ago
MMOs like this still exist and new ones are being made every few years. Don't give up hope just yet. Many of them cite UO as their main influence and inspiration.
- debaserab2 12y ago
  Do you have an example of one? I'm dying to try one that really lives up to the original aspirations (e.g., pretrammel) of UO.
- Kiro 12y ago
  The problem with these new UOs is that there are no victims, only hardcore players who enjoy this brutal setting. With UO people had no choice since the "care bear" alternatives didn't exist. This makes the new UOs with PK and full loot much less dynamic.
  - yarou 12y ago
    That's where MOBAs come in. It crystallizes the essence of PvP MMOs and gives them arena style gameplay like Quake. Another reason why they tend to be the most addicting of online games.
    - meowface 12y ago
      No way. Yes, MOBAs have their place, but confined arenas give a very good game experience from massive, sprawling, unstructured, player-driven worlds. Truly good PvP-focused MMOs are much closer to Minecraft than they are to MOBAs, RTSs, or FPSs. You can't really compare the two.
  - jghn 12y ago
    Exactly. But see my post above about predator/prey ratios. And this gets to the other point, I'd argue that if a player (not character) only finds a game fun if there are 'victims' to exploit that they are in fact the problem. IMO a true fan of such things would enjoy the 'hardcore players who enjoy this brutal setting', but we've seen time and time again that these games fail because the majority of people who say they want these games really just want to be at the top of the food chain. Random side note: The 'care bear' term erupted on the CoB board. The LS roleplayers tended to be very PvP heavy. The Chessie roleplayers were generally PvP averse. We called them care bears and they called us the biker gang. This lead to things like them making throwaway chars on LS to give us a "care bear invasion" at Silks, us making chars over there for impromptu events (some involving Koster himself), etc.
Shivetya 12y ago
I don't blizzard set out to do it, but by offering pvp/pve/rp servers and separating players they finally hit on the one thing many MMOs were missing. Safety. You were safe to play without having other people purposefully ruin your game play. In UO it was PvP, in EQ it was training mobs, and there were means in other games as well, where a person could interrupt another endlessly. Was it a step back in some cases? Sure, I came from Asheron's Call, you could pvp, pvp lite, or just pve. Yet it was such an open and expansive world filled with housing of all sorts that WOW initially felt like a step backward (zones? Really???). Yet WOW made sure you knew what you were supposed to be doing. cater to causals and cater to hard cores (even water cooler types) and they pretty much covered the two markets needing to be served. One thing MMO companies over estimate; at least for Western markets;is the desire for PvP. Oh initially you will find games that offer both server types with populations nearly split but age and the PvP ones fall by the wayside. People will accept guidance, but mostly they want a safe and fun experience. Safe meaning other people cannot just ruin your day.
- debaserab2 12y ago
  I don't agree with the assumption that you fit one mold or the other. I do believe there is a market of people that would be willing to play an MMO if the rules were different (as mentioned below, Eve is evidence of this). Blizzard did an excellent job solving MMO problems that were major problems at the time, and they solved it so incredibly they completely dominated the market and squeezed out any room for new concepts. Not everyone needs or wants the hand holding and artificial barriers that are put up between players and see some see that as a detriment to the experiences that could be created in this type of game.

broodbucket 12y ago

EVE Online has just about everything you just mentioned, and is doing just fine. I prefer the WoW model, and so do the majority based on the numbers, but there is still a lively community for that type of gameplay.

NovaS1X 12y ago
I played WoW for a good 4-6 years. Had a lot of fun but eventually it became easy, grindy, and just lost it' luster. I've been playing EVE since about 2007 now and it's the only thing keeping me playing MMOs let alone video games. Then again EVE isn't really a game it's just a strange branch of real life.
- RickHull 12y ago
  > Then again EVE isn't really a game it's just a strange branch of real life. True, in that it's very complex, and it does reward an analytical approach, which may or may not accord with one's own real life. Eve is a fantastic hobby, in that it is intellectually demanding, time consuming, skill rewarding, and an emotional investment. I can't recommend it but I'd certainly suggest it for whatever it is that ails ya.
- saraid216 12y ago
  > Then again EVE isn't really a game it's just a strange branch of real life. That's a statement you can make about every game.
debaserab2 12y ago
I really should try Eve, from what I hear it's pretty awesome. I'm just not that into the spaceship thing. Still, from the stories I've heard, it does sound like it has the experience I'm looking for. I'm just disappointed in the options available.
- Tangokat 12y ago
  If you want to see what battles are like you should watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0 It is a new trailer CCP (makers of Eve) made with real player communication.
- kybernetyk 12y ago
  > I'm just not that into the spaceship thing That spaceship thing is just a graphical representation to a very complex social simulation. Most people would keep playing EVE if CCP changed it into "Goat Simulator Online". As someone told me once: EVE online is about spaceships like astronomy is about telescopes. (Of course he butchered a famous quote there).

meowface 12y ago

MMOs like this still exist and new ones are being made every few years. Don't give up hope just yet. Many of them cite UO as their main influence and inspiration.

debaserab2 12y ago
Do you have an example of one? I'm dying to try one that really lives up to the original aspirations (e.g., pretrammel) of UO.
Kiro 12y ago
The problem with these new UOs is that there are no victims, only hardcore players who enjoy this brutal setting. With UO people had no choice since the "care bear" alternatives didn't exist. This makes the new UOs with PK and full loot much less dynamic.
- yarou 12y ago
  That's where MOBAs come in. It crystallizes the essence of PvP MMOs and gives them arena style gameplay like Quake. Another reason why they tend to be the most addicting of online games.
  - meowface 12y ago
    No way. Yes, MOBAs have their place, but confined arenas give a very good game experience from massive, sprawling, unstructured, player-driven worlds. Truly good PvP-focused MMOs are much closer to Minecraft than they are to MOBAs, RTSs, or FPSs. You can't really compare the two.
- jghn 12y ago
  Exactly. But see my post above about predator/prey ratios. And this gets to the other point, I'd argue that if a player (not character) only finds a game fun if there are 'victims' to exploit that they are in fact the problem. IMO a true fan of such things would enjoy the 'hardcore players who enjoy this brutal setting', but we've seen time and time again that these games fail because the majority of people who say they want these games really just want to be at the top of the food chain. Random side note: The 'care bear' term erupted on the CoB board. The LS roleplayers tended to be very PvP heavy. The Chessie roleplayers were generally PvP averse. We called them care bears and they called us the biker gang. This lead to things like them making throwaway chars on LS to give us a "care bear invasion" at Silks, us making chars over there for impromptu events (some involving Koster himself), etc.

Shivetya 12y ago

I don't blizzard set out to do it, but by offering pvp/pve/rp servers and separating players they finally hit on the one thing many MMOs were missing. Safety. You were safe to play without having other people purposefully ruin your game play. In UO it was PvP, in EQ it was training mobs, and there were means in other games as well, where a person could interrupt another endlessly. Was it a step back in some cases? Sure, I came from Asheron's Call, you could pvp, pvp lite, or just pve. Yet it was such an open and expansive world filled with housing of all sorts that WOW initially felt like a step backward (zones? Really???). Yet WOW made sure you knew what you were supposed to be doing. cater to causals and cater to hard cores (even water cooler types) and they pretty much covered the two markets needing to be served. One thing MMO companies over estimate; at least for Western markets;is the desire for PvP. Oh initially you will find games that offer both server types with populations nearly split but age and the PvP ones fall by the wayside. People will accept guidance, but mostly they want a safe and fun experience. Safe meaning other people cannot just ruin your day.

debaserab2 12y ago
I don't agree with the assumption that you fit one mold or the other. I do believe there is a market of people that would be willing to play an MMO if the rules were different (as mentioned below, Eve is evidence of this). Blizzard did an excellent job solving MMO problems that were major problems at the time, and they solved it so incredibly they completely dominated the market and squeezed out any room for new concepts. Not everyone needs or wants the hand holding and artificial barriers that are put up between players and see some see that as a detriment to the experiences that could be created in this type of game.