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Europe has already looked at industrial freezers as batteries. Take them to -40 when electricity is cheap let them get to -20 during peak. http://spectrum.iee

Europe has already looked at industrial freezers as batteries. Take them to -40 when electricity is cheap let them get to -20 during peak. http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/swiss-warehouse-helps-buffer-the-grid http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/swiss-wareh...

majormajor 12y ago
They call it a "virtual battery" but that seems misleading to me - I don't see any way to get electricity back out, it sounds more like it just saves electricity consumed at peak periods by using, but they couldn't store more than they could use in the first place?
- raverbashing 12y ago
  Yeah... Well, you can consider a battery if you consider the load (in the grid) needs not to be constant “With smart controls, we should be able to dynamically adapt the power consumption, to consume electricity when there’s enough power in the grid and not to consume when power is scarce.”
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  One element of using intermittent or variable renewable energy is to take the approach of dispatching demand to meet your available capacity rather than dispatching capacity to meet demand. Presently, electrical generation relies on base-load power -- plants which run very nearly all the time, typically coal or nuclear -- with "peaking" and matching capabilities -- generation which can be rapidly added or removed, with response times typically measured in minutes (grids can change fairly rapidly, but not that rapidly, and much demand is highly predictable based on weather, human behavior, and other patterns). Some large power loads can effectively be banked, and heating and cooling loads are key among these. By providing a large thermal storage mass (either hot or cold), it's possible to "bank" energy when there's a surplus, or when generation is low-cost, and draw down that bank when energy's scarce. Other alternatives are running energy-intensive processes which can be cycled either rapidly or predictably as needed. Aluminium smelting (very electrically intensive), hydrogen electrolysis, and other industrial processes are candidates for this. It's also effectively how pumped-storage hydro works. You may not be getting back electricity directly, but by offsetting a large cooling load, you're shifting demand.
- Retra 12y ago
  You could get electricity back with something as simple as a stirling engine, but there is no point to doing that, as you aren't storing enough to take yourself off the grid anyhow.
ghshephard 12y ago
Goldman Sachs does something roughly similar with their air conditioning system (Create ice at night when it's cheap and plentiful, and then melt it during the day to keep their buildings cool) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-01/goldman-s-icy-arbitrage-draws-interest-to-meet-epa-rule.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-01/goldman-s-icy-arbit... Australia, Portugal, and presumably other countries have systems that heat up Hot Water heaters at night when power is less expensive as well.

majormajor 12y ago

They call it a "virtual battery" but that seems misleading to me - I don't see any way to get electricity back out, it sounds more like it just saves electricity consumed at peak periods by using, but they couldn't store more than they could use in the first place?

raverbashing 12y ago
Yeah... Well, you can consider a battery if you consider the load (in the grid) needs not to be constant “With smart controls, we should be able to dynamically adapt the power consumption, to consume electricity when there’s enough power in the grid and not to consume when power is scarce.”
dredmorbius 12y ago
One element of using intermittent or variable renewable energy is to take the approach of dispatching demand to meet your available capacity rather than dispatching capacity to meet demand. Presently, electrical generation relies on base-load power -- plants which run very nearly all the time, typically coal or nuclear -- with "peaking" and matching capabilities -- generation which can be rapidly added or removed, with response times typically measured in minutes (grids can change fairly rapidly, but not that rapidly, and much demand is highly predictable based on weather, human behavior, and other patterns). Some large power loads can effectively be banked, and heating and cooling loads are key among these. By providing a large thermal storage mass (either hot or cold), it's possible to "bank" energy when there's a surplus, or when generation is low-cost, and draw down that bank when energy's scarce. Other alternatives are running energy-intensive processes which can be cycled either rapidly or predictably as needed. Aluminium smelting (very electrically intensive), hydrogen electrolysis, and other industrial processes are candidates for this. It's also effectively how pumped-storage hydro works. You may not be getting back electricity directly, but by offsetting a large cooling load, you're shifting demand.
Retra 12y ago
You could get electricity back with something as simple as a stirling engine, but there is no point to doing that, as you aren't storing enough to take yourself off the grid anyhow.

ghshephard 12y ago

Goldman Sachs does something roughly similar with their air conditioning system (Create ice at night when it's cheap and plentiful, and then melt it during the day to keep their buildings cool) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-01/goldman-s-icy-arbitrage-draws-interest-to-meet-epa-rule.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-01/goldman-s-icy-arbit... Australia, Portugal, and presumably other countries have systems that heat up Hot Water heaters at night when power is less expensive as well.