4 ms·

Maybe tag with (2011)? It's possible some of the institutional issues have changed in the past couple years.

kragen 12y ago
Well, they have changed, but they've changed for the worse. Google has gradually been succumbing to the pressures I identified in that post; witness the move of Android to put gradually more services into proprietary Google Play Services, the ban on disconnect.me, the years-long struggle over pseudonymity on Google+ (finally resolved for the best), the ugly debasement of search results to drive traffic to Google+, the ban on non-Chrome browsers accessing Hangouts, the abandonment of XMPP compatibility by deceptively pressuring Google Chat users to move to Hangouts instead, and so on. These are by no means crimes, but they're more evil than the things Google would have done in 2008 or 2009, and they're certainly not moving the internet in the direction I want to see it move in.
- abraham 12y ago
  > the ban on non-Chrome browsers accessing Hangouts What do you mean by this? The documentation lists support for Chrome, IE, Firefox, and Safari. https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1216376 https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1216376
  - SafdarIqbal 12y ago
    There is no way to get notifications if you're using Firefox or Safari.
    - abraham 12y ago
      A missing feature != ban. Plus I'm pretty sure you are wrong. "This setting applies to all Hangouts notifications from Gmail, Google+ and the Chrome extension on the same desktop computer." Gmail and Google+ are both supported in all major browsers. https://support.google.com/hangouts/answer/3111923 https://support.google.com/hangouts/answer/3111923
  - kragen 12y ago
    I haven't tried using Hangouts lately, so maybe it's been fixed. It got broken back in August; http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/08/choose-firefox-now-or-later-you-wont.html?showComment=1407817453520#c5518384044027599177 http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/08/choose-firefox-now-or-la... explains: "I can understand asking why Hangouts doesn't work in Firefox. In short, we wanted to transition to WebRTC sooner rather than later, and at the moment there are things holding us back on both our side (e.g. upgrading our ICE implementation) and the Firefox side (e.g. supporting multiple video streams). "But overall, surely you're not arguing that transitioning a major Google application from a proprietary plugin to an open web standard somehow demonstrates that Chrome doesn't value web standards."
    - azakai 12y ago
      It doesn't look like it was fixed. I tried: 1. Go to http://www.google.com/hangouts/ http://www.google.com/hangouts/ 2. Click "get hangouts" 3. Click "computers" Result is "You'll need to download Chrome before installing the Hangouts Chrome extension. Do you want to download Chrome now?" edit: I think i remember being told on twitter that this was a confusing UI that would be changed. But that was several months ago.
      - magicalist 12y ago
        I think the "confusing UI" thing becomes apparent if you click and try it. By hangouts on "computers" they mean as a desktop-installed app (which is just a wrapper around a Chrome app). I don't know why you'd want that (basically just a bookmark on your desktop?) but that's what it is. If, however, you just start a hangout inside of gmail, it works fine in Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and IE (just hung out with myself on two computers in multiple browsers to test that out) and there was never a time that was broken, contrary to the GP post.
        azakai 12y ago
        Well, when you click "get hangouts" the options are "Android, iOS or Computers". So anyone that wants to run it on anything but a smartphone gets told that it can only run on Chrome. I don't see it mention anything about an app as opposed to running in a browser. Perhaps this is just a confusing UI, but if so, it would be very easy to fix. If that's the case, I'm puzzled why it hasn't been fixed.
- yuhong 12y ago
  Of those, the Google+ one is my favorite and I am glad Vic Gundotra got fired.
- joshuacc 12y ago
  > the ban on non-Chrome browsers accessing Hangouts There is no such ban. I've been using Hangouts with FireFox and IE for months. If you attempt to access a Hangouts url with FireFox, for example, it prompts you to install a FireFox plugin.
  - sneak 12y ago
    Plugins are not websites.
    - andor 12y ago
      The "Google Talk Plugin" is required for Chrome as well. At least on Linux, it's a separate install.

Well, they have changed, but they've changed for the worse. Google has gradually been succumbing to the pressures I identified in that post; witness the move of Android to put gradually more services into proprietary Google Play Services, the ban on disconnect.me, the years-long struggle over pseudonymity on Google+ (finally resolved for the best), the ugly debasement of search results to drive traffic to Google+, the ban on non-Chrome browsers accessing Hangouts, the abandonment of XMPP compatibility by deceptively pressuring Google Chat users to move to Hangouts instead, and so on. These are by no means crimes, but they're more evil than the things Google would have done in 2008 or 2009, and they're certainly not moving the internet in the direction I want to see it move in.

abraham 12y ago
> the ban on non-Chrome browsers accessing Hangouts What do you mean by this? The documentation lists support for Chrome, IE, Firefox, and Safari. https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1216376 https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1216376
- SafdarIqbal 12y ago
  There is no way to get notifications if you're using Firefox or Safari.
  - abraham 12y ago
    A missing feature != ban. Plus I'm pretty sure you are wrong. "This setting applies to all Hangouts notifications from Gmail, Google+ and the Chrome extension on the same desktop computer." Gmail and Google+ are both supported in all major browsers. https://support.google.com/hangouts/answer/3111923 https://support.google.com/hangouts/answer/3111923
- kragen 12y ago
  I haven't tried using Hangouts lately, so maybe it's been fixed. It got broken back in August; http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/08/choose-firefox-now-or-later-you-wont.html?showComment=1407817453520#c5518384044027599177 http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/08/choose-firefox-now-or-la... explains: "I can understand asking why Hangouts doesn't work in Firefox. In short, we wanted to transition to WebRTC sooner rather than later, and at the moment there are things holding us back on both our side (e.g. upgrading our ICE implementation) and the Firefox side (e.g. supporting multiple video streams). "But overall, surely you're not arguing that transitioning a major Google application from a proprietary plugin to an open web standard somehow demonstrates that Chrome doesn't value web standards."
  - azakai 12y ago
    It doesn't look like it was fixed. I tried: 1. Go to http://www.google.com/hangouts/ http://www.google.com/hangouts/ 2. Click "get hangouts" 3. Click "computers" Result is "You'll need to download Chrome before installing the Hangouts Chrome extension. Do you want to download Chrome now?" edit: I think i remember being told on twitter that this was a confusing UI that would be changed. But that was several months ago.
    - magicalist 12y ago
      I think the "confusing UI" thing becomes apparent if you click and try it. By hangouts on "computers" they mean as a desktop-installed app (which is just a wrapper around a Chrome app). I don't know why you'd want that (basically just a bookmark on your desktop?) but that's what it is. If, however, you just start a hangout inside of gmail, it works fine in Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and IE (just hung out with myself on two computers in multiple browsers to test that out) and there was never a time that was broken, contrary to the GP post.
      - azakai 12y ago
        Well, when you click "get hangouts" the options are "Android, iOS or Computers". So anyone that wants to run it on anything but a smartphone gets told that it can only run on Chrome. I don't see it mention anything about an app as opposed to running in a browser. Perhaps this is just a confusing UI, but if so, it would be very easy to fix. If that's the case, I'm puzzled why it hasn't been fixed.
yuhong 12y ago
Of those, the Google+ one is my favorite and I am glad Vic Gundotra got fired.
joshuacc 12y ago
> the ban on non-Chrome browsers accessing Hangouts There is no such ban. I've been using Hangouts with FireFox and IE for months. If you attempt to access a Hangouts url with FireFox, for example, it prompts you to install a FireFox plugin.
- sneak 12y ago
  Plugins are not websites.
  - andor 12y ago
    The "Google Talk Plugin" is required for Chrome as well. At least on Linux, it's a separate install.