4 ms·

IMHO, not only is this a "grass is greener on the other side" situation, it is a drastic abandonment of accumulated potential energy (your degree + industry exp

by vijucat 12y ago

IMHO, not only is this a "grass is greener on the other side" situation, it is a drastic abandonment of accumulated potential energy (your degree + industry experience). You would be abandoning a true niche skillset: there are some positions that are open only to people with an MS in FE plus C++ plus x years of industry experience plus a cogent answer to "What happens when there is a race condition between an Order Cancel Request and Executions? What FIX tags are involved? Give me an example". Many people would seriously envy you if you told them what you do. BTW, many startups (not all) are all about the kludge : they are always in a time crunch and that's why languages that allow rapid iteration such as Ruby or JavaScript (quick wins, but long-term technical debt accumulation) win out over the more sturdy-but-time-consuming enterprise choices such as Java or C++. If your startup may not even exist 3 months after inception, it makes sense to rapidly discover if we can even get customer no. 1. For Goldman Sachs or other big bank with deep pockets, they can afford to allow you time to do things the right way from day one. For some people, kludging is a personal habit. It is a dangerous one. One suggestion I have is to spend at least an hour daily on reading. The way I see it, you only need a change of job to a better pay and more respect than $125k in NYC. You may be happy after that + finding more like-minded friends outside work? (maybe attend some tech meetups on meetup.com in NYC?) If your heart strings still tug at you, you can always consider switching over :-) I used to work in the financial industry and switched over to a startup recently, but it was a decision that made sense for ME, not necessarily others. If you want to talk to me, please don't hesitate to contact.

johnnycash 12y ago
Hi vijucat, thanks for your response. I think you're right that if I left my current industry, I would feel like I wasted the time I put into getting into finance. That's what's holding me back. I actually have no idea how to answer your race condition question because I'm not involved in parsing the FIX logs. I could probably start doing this kind of thing at my current job though. Are firms actively looking for people with these kinds of skills? Also, I'm pretty opposed to working at a bank because of their hierarchy, culture, and morals. Knowing this, would you still recommend I stay in finance? (Pauses for laughter to subside). If you're wondering why I got into finance in the first place, it's because I wanted to work for buy-side firms, and wanted a lucrative job, and was a little naive. I fell into the sell-side, but work at a company much smaller than a bank. Finally, you mentioned I'm underpaid--what do you recommend I ask for in terms of a raise, and after how many months would it be appropriate? I'm a few months in and this is my first job ever because I did the master's right after my bachelors.
- vijucat 12y ago
  I just gave the FIX log example because that's what I am familiar with, that's all. :-) > Are firms actively looking for people with these kinds of skills? Generally, I used to use efinancialcareers.com and other industry-specific recruiters to gauge demand. On the flow side / sell-side, unless you have elevated into a more quant-focused role, the IT folks often end up dealing with FIX, but I suppose it also depends on which instrument...I was in equities. > Finally, you mentioned I'm underpaid--what do you recommend I ask for in terms of a raise, and after how many months would it be appropriate? I'm a few months in and this is my first job ever because I did the master's right after my bachelors. Honestly, I don't know. I'm in Hong Kong and I don't have a pulse on NYC salaries right now. I somehow thought you had some years of experience, so the salary you mentioned may not even be low if this is your first job? If I was in your situation, I would do a survey among my friends to gauge the appropriate salary. Be careful about recruiters' opinions, though : it benefits them to make you feel dissatisfied at your present job, so they may exaggerate how much you could get if you jumped jobs. If the gap is too much, I would immediately put in a word in with my manager : "Hey, I was just talking to my friends and I found out that I started off at the lowest salary among the bunch. On the average, the difference is $40k or more. Do you think you can revise my base or bonus at some point in the future?". It is politically important to put it across as a concern / request, not as an aggressive stand. If the gap in salary between you and your batchmates at other places is not that much, you can wait till the year-end / half-year review... Plus, there are all the other issues of your employer's brand-name, the kind of work you do, how nice your colleagues are to you, how nice of a person is your boss, etc;...All these have tremendous value, too, and employers are keenly aware of their brand-value as well as whether the work you are being allowed to do is coveted, and don't hesitate to pay you less than market-rate if either factor comes into play! > Knowing this, would you still recommend I stay in finance? Yes, finance is so large an industry that stereotypes need not apply to you. For example, Jane Street is much more respectful of good coders / thinkers has a startup feel to it. You can aspire to join such a small firm rather than JPM, GS, or other axis-of-evil participants. :-) Or you can join a smaller buy-side shop, etc; The top three things I would suggest doing are a) network; need not be aggressive; just do things you like with other people. Go to an R meetup or python meetup, for example. Meetups hosted at other firms' offices are a great way to check them out and get intel on what the industry is like outside your firm b) identify fields of interest and become good at them; could be tech, could be particular instruments of trading, etc; c) wait. Wait until the field and the players become more clear. Wait until you come across a firm or opportunity that makes you go, "Wow, I'd like to work there / on that!". Then the energy will come to you naturally. Or maybe you see them all and it becomes really clear that you don't even want to be in NY? I think it's great that you posted on HN and asked for advice. It's great that you acknowledged that you are dissatisfied. The tricky part after seeing a problem is waiting. :-) The natural tendency is to jump to a solution, and often, we just simply pick the thing that looks most different from where we're uncomfortable (startups instead of finance; SV instead of NY, etc;). Staying with the discomfort till your feelings crystallize more clearly is probably the most tricky yet important skill for anyone.

by vijucat 12y ago

johnnycash 12y ago

Hi vijucat, thanks for your response. I think you're right that if I left my current industry, I would feel like I wasted the time I put into getting into finance. That's what's holding me back. I actually have no idea how to answer your race condition question because I'm not involved in parsing the FIX logs. I could probably start doing this kind of thing at my current job though. Are firms actively looking for people with these kinds of skills? Also, I'm pretty opposed to working at a bank because of their hierarchy, culture, and morals. Knowing this, would you still recommend I stay in finance? (Pauses for laughter to subside). If you're wondering why I got into finance in the first place, it's because I wanted to work for buy-side firms, and wanted a lucrative job, and was a little naive. I fell into the sell-side, but work at a company much smaller than a bank. Finally, you mentioned I'm underpaid--what do you recommend I ask for in terms of a raise, and after how many months would it be appropriate? I'm a few months in and this is my first job ever because I did the master's right after my bachelors.

vijucat 12y ago
I just gave the FIX log example because that's what I am familiar with, that's all. :-) > Are firms actively looking for people with these kinds of skills? Generally, I used to use efinancialcareers.com and other industry-specific recruiters to gauge demand. On the flow side / sell-side, unless you have elevated into a more quant-focused role, the IT folks often end up dealing with FIX, but I suppose it also depends on which instrument...I was in equities. > Finally, you mentioned I'm underpaid--what do you recommend I ask for in terms of a raise, and after how many months would it be appropriate? I'm a few months in and this is my first job ever because I did the master's right after my bachelors. Honestly, I don't know. I'm in Hong Kong and I don't have a pulse on NYC salaries right now. I somehow thought you had some years of experience, so the salary you mentioned may not even be low if this is your first job? If I was in your situation, I would do a survey among my friends to gauge the appropriate salary. Be careful about recruiters' opinions, though : it benefits them to make you feel dissatisfied at your present job, so they may exaggerate how much you could get if you jumped jobs. If the gap is too much, I would immediately put in a word in with my manager : "Hey, I was just talking to my friends and I found out that I started off at the lowest salary among the bunch. On the average, the difference is $40k or more. Do you think you can revise my base or bonus at some point in the future?". It is politically important to put it across as a concern / request, not as an aggressive stand. If the gap in salary between you and your batchmates at other places is not that much, you can wait till the year-end / half-year review... Plus, there are all the other issues of your employer's brand-name, the kind of work you do, how nice your colleagues are to you, how nice of a person is your boss, etc;...All these have tremendous value, too, and employers are keenly aware of their brand-value as well as whether the work you are being allowed to do is coveted, and don't hesitate to pay you less than market-rate if either factor comes into play! > Knowing this, would you still recommend I stay in finance? Yes, finance is so large an industry that stereotypes need not apply to you. For example, Jane Street is much more respectful of good coders / thinkers has a startup feel to it. You can aspire to join such a small firm rather than JPM, GS, or other axis-of-evil participants. :-) Or you can join a smaller buy-side shop, etc; The top three things I would suggest doing are a) network; need not be aggressive; just do things you like with other people. Go to an R meetup or python meetup, for example. Meetups hosted at other firms' offices are a great way to check them out and get intel on what the industry is like outside your firm b) identify fields of interest and become good at them; could be tech, could be particular instruments of trading, etc; c) wait. Wait until the field and the players become more clear. Wait until you come across a firm or opportunity that makes you go, "Wow, I'd like to work there / on that!". Then the energy will come to you naturally. Or maybe you see them all and it becomes really clear that you don't even want to be in NY? I think it's great that you posted on HN and asked for advice. It's great that you acknowledged that you are dissatisfied. The tricky part after seeing a problem is waiting. :-) The natural tendency is to jump to a solution, and often, we just simply pick the thing that looks most different from where we're uncomfortable (startups instead of finance; SV instead of NY, etc;). Staying with the discomfort till your feelings crystallize more clearly is probably the most tricky yet important skill for anyone.