5 ms·

Ninjhax – 3DS Homebrew Exploit

96 points by yuriks 12y ago

voltagex_ 12y ago
Unfortunately you won't be able to snag a copy easily, apparently this has been out for 3 days. Interesting watching the supply and demand effects of this. It was a previously unknown 3DS game, ~$5 in whatever your local currency. Now it's $50-100 if you can find it.
- smosher_ 12y ago
  I just confirmed it's on the eShop for $39.99 (via search) in the 'U' region. I haven't bought it, so maybe it would fail if I tried.
  - b0b_d0e 12y ago
    I went to download it from the eShop about an hour ago and it said that its currently only available from your local game store. I'm pretty sure that means Nintendo pulled it because of this vulnerability, but hey, I would probably pull it as well if I was Nintendo. I'm curious to see if its available for purchase for other people besides me.
    - smosher_ 12y ago
      Boo. I'm betting they'll put up a patched version later.
    - CrazedGeek 12y ago
      AFAIK, it was never up in the eShop anywhere but Japan, where it (is going to be/has been) pulled.
- yzzxy 12y ago
  Yeah, the EBay auctions are going up fast: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xcubic+ninja&_nkw=cubic+ninja&_sacat=0 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m5...
GuiA 12y ago
I don't get why Nintendo doesn't have a public SDK. Charge for it (e.g. $100 a year), and have an "Indie eShop" along with the "eShop". The open app store models works great for companies that control both hardware and software, and all video game companies fit perfectly in that niche. It seems that it will be that way soon because MS, Sony, and Nintendo have been increasingly more open to indies in the past decade- for the very good reason that it makes business sense. It'd be very surprising if the trend reversed- and it's surprising that it's taking so long for it to reach its logical conclusion. Particularly for Nintendo: if they make the 3DS an openly programmable computer with an app store, there could be some very unexpected apps (not video game related) that would open up new revenue streams. I believe that they've been needing that recently, and it seems unlikely that selling plastic figures is more of a viable long term strategy than Zynga freemium crap.
- _pmf_ 12y ago
  It's as if they want to lose against other mobile options.
  - smosher_ 12y ago
    They were locked down very hard with the NDS at the policy level. They didn't lose on content but they did have a lot of problems with piracy. So for Nintendo, experience doesn't suggest they will lose out by being such a closed system. If anything, they might have drawn the conclusion that they have to lock it down harder. They certainly took that tack with the hardware and code, but I don't know about their current developer policies. I don't think they'll actually become the loser because of it, but I do think they could get a lot more engagement if they opened things up considerably. I'm not sure what kind of difference that would make, they make a killing on licensing and they probably don't want to risk endangering those profits while they're in the top spot (~45 million 3DS units shipped¹, ~4 million PS Vita².) ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_3DS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_3DS (sidebar) ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Vita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Vita (sidebar)
  - CJefferson 12y ago
    I feel Nintendo have to be very careful. I know several people (I realise one has to be careful with anicdotes) who have bought their children 2DS/3DSes rather than expose them to the trash pile which is the Apple and Android app stores. I personally bought a 3DS for myself after a couple of years of just playing mobile games -- there is just too much trash and discovery of any quality games is just too hard. There is far too many mobile "games" designed to provide just enough fun to pursade users to put more money in.
AlyssaRowan 12y ago
Over a QR code that you scan? I have to express my admiration for the elegance of that exploit. Very nice work. Nintendo are not going to like it. (However it cannot be used for piracy at the moment; you'd need a user mode -> kernel privilege escalation as well, and no-one's waving one of those around.) It'll be interesting to see what results of this, aside from the price of unpatched versions of Cubic Ninja skyrocketing of course and Nintendo pulling that from the Japanese eShop (according to smea, the only one where it was available?).
asb 12y ago
Does anyone know of documentation on how the exploit functions? i.e. what the vulnerability in Ninjhax is?
- CJefferson 12y ago
  We don't have exact details, but 'cubic ninja' has a fairly extensive level designer, and there is obviously a buffer overflow in the level loading code.
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  Nintendo is going to patch it eventually and the devs don't want to give them any help and speed it up, we probably won't get a writeup until after it's patched.
sspiff 12y ago
This is all really exciting! I order the required game before they get impossible to acquire (maybe I'm already too late, the shop said 3-4 weeks waiting time). I programmed the GBA as a teenager, and this brings back memories. I'd love for a homebrew scene to grow around the 3DS.
emodendroket 12y ago
Already off of the Japanese e-shop so I suppose I'll be left out, but this is neat and hopefully it picks up steam.

96 points by yuriks 12y ago

Unfortunately you won't be able to snag a copy easily, apparently this has been out for 3 days. Interesting watching the supply and demand effects of this. It was a previously unknown 3DS game, ~$5 in whatever your local currency. Now it's $50-100 if you can find it.

smosher_ 12y ago
I just confirmed it's on the eShop for $39.99 (via search) in the 'U' region. I haven't bought it, so maybe it would fail if I tried.
- b0b_d0e 12y ago
  I went to download it from the eShop about an hour ago and it said that its currently only available from your local game store. I'm pretty sure that means Nintendo pulled it because of this vulnerability, but hey, I would probably pull it as well if I was Nintendo. I'm curious to see if its available for purchase for other people besides me.
  - smosher_ 12y ago
    Boo. I'm betting they'll put up a patched version later.
  - CrazedGeek 12y ago
    AFAIK, it was never up in the eShop anywhere but Japan, where it (is going to be/has been) pulled.
yzzxy 12y ago
Yeah, the EBay auctions are going up fast: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xcubic+ninja&_nkw=cubic+ninja&_sacat=0 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m5...

GuiA 12y ago

I don't get why Nintendo doesn't have a public SDK. Charge for it (e.g. $100 a year), and have an "Indie eShop" along with the "eShop". The open app store models works great for companies that control both hardware and software, and all video game companies fit perfectly in that niche. It seems that it will be that way soon because MS, Sony, and Nintendo have been increasingly more open to indies in the past decade- for the very good reason that it makes business sense. It'd be very surprising if the trend reversed- and it's surprising that it's taking so long for it to reach its logical conclusion. Particularly for Nintendo: if they make the 3DS an openly programmable computer with an app store, there could be some very unexpected apps (not video game related) that would open up new revenue streams. I believe that they've been needing that recently, and it seems unlikely that selling plastic figures is more of a viable long term strategy than Zynga freemium crap.

_pmf_ 12y ago
It's as if they want to lose against other mobile options.
- smosher_ 12y ago
  They were locked down very hard with the NDS at the policy level. They didn't lose on content but they did have a lot of problems with piracy. So for Nintendo, experience doesn't suggest they will lose out by being such a closed system. If anything, they might have drawn the conclusion that they have to lock it down harder. They certainly took that tack with the hardware and code, but I don't know about their current developer policies. I don't think they'll actually become the loser because of it, but I do think they could get a lot more engagement if they opened things up considerably. I'm not sure what kind of difference that would make, they make a killing on licensing and they probably don't want to risk endangering those profits while they're in the top spot (~45 million 3DS units shipped¹, ~4 million PS Vita².) ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_3DS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_3DS (sidebar) ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Vita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Vita (sidebar)
- CJefferson 12y ago
  I feel Nintendo have to be very careful. I know several people (I realise one has to be careful with anicdotes) who have bought their children 2DS/3DSes rather than expose them to the trash pile which is the Apple and Android app stores. I personally bought a 3DS for myself after a couple of years of just playing mobile games -- there is just too much trash and discovery of any quality games is just too hard. There is far too many mobile "games" designed to provide just enough fun to pursade users to put more money in.

AlyssaRowan 12y ago

Over a QR code that you scan? I have to express my admiration for the elegance of that exploit. Very nice work. Nintendo are not going to like it. (However it cannot be used for piracy at the moment; you'd need a user mode -> kernel privilege escalation as well, and no-one's waving one of those around.) It'll be interesting to see what results of this, aside from the price of unpatched versions of Cubic Ninja skyrocketing of course and Nintendo pulling that from the Japanese eShop (according to smea, the only one where it was available?).

asb 12y ago

Does anyone know of documentation on how the exploit functions? i.e. what the vulnerability in Ninjhax is?

CJefferson 12y ago
We don't have exact details, but 'cubic ninja' has a fairly extensive level designer, and there is obviously a buffer overflow in the level loading code.
Igglyboo 12y ago
Nintendo is going to patch it eventually and the devs don't want to give them any help and speed it up, we probably won't get a writeup until after it's patched.

sspiff 12y ago

This is all really exciting! I order the required game before they get impossible to acquire (maybe I'm already too late, the shop said 3-4 weeks waiting time). I programmed the GBA as a teenager, and this brings back memories. I'd love for a homebrew scene to grow around the 3DS.

emodendroket 12y ago

Already off of the Japanese e-shop so I suppose I'll be left out, but this is neat and hopefully it picks up steam.