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"Many women gamers and developers, as well as those who support them, have lately come under attack from online trolls" Please don't whitewash the GamerGaters

"Many women gamers and developers, as well as those who support them, have lately come under attack from online trolls" Please don't whitewash the GamerGaters who have also experienced such attacks. (For example, one was "doxed" and mailed a knife with a suggestion to kill himself - which I'd argue a far worse "attack" than any online threats. The anti-GamerGate media of course doesn't report on this.)

lentil_soup 12y ago
What about a source for that?
- doctorfoo 12y ago
  https://twitter.com/kingofpol/status/525755692318457856 https://twitter.com/kingofpol/status/525755692318457856 Keywords "gamergate knife".
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    I'm sure all the folks claiming @femfreq made up her death threats will be equally skeptical about this one.
    - doctorfoo 12y ago
      It's tribal warfare, well done! I'd like journalists to report both claims.
    - rudolf0 12y ago
      "KingOfPol" is known for lying and generally being not too mentally stable, so it's certainly not a stretch. Sarkeesian on the other hand is unlikely to lie about such things, but there was clearly some exaggeration involved.
      - mafribe 12y ago
        Why is Sarkeesian "unlikely to lie about such things"?
        rudolf0 12y ago
        Because she's (sort of) a public figure and if it was revealed she was lying, it would look very bad for her? She also hasn't had a history of lying about such things in the past, so there's no reason to suspect she is now. She is known to have lied about certain other issues, but not in a way that's relevant to threats or harassment. She also doesn't come across as mentally unhinged or malicious. I dislike her, but I don't think she lied about any of the threats. The other person being discussed, KingOfPol, is known for his narcissism and fabrication of stories, so it's a bit different.
        mafribe 12y ago
        That's not an exhaustive analysis. I recommend to look at risk vs reward. The risk of getting caught is essentially zero: just use Tor and VPN via an 'unfriendly' third country to send fake threats to yourself, or get a friend to do that for you. Clearly the police is not going to investigate, because all these cyberthreats are obviously not serious. The upside on the other hand ... Sarkeesian made how much last time by playing the damsel-in-distress? Wasn't it over $100k? That's quite an incentive. And then there is the political effect: the mainstream media, for various reasons, will automatically sides with the damsels. I spent quite a lot of time in activists' milieu and I smell attack techniques in a Leninian mould, see e.g. Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals".
        ceejayoz 12y ago
        If nothing else, the pattern of harassment and threats made towards not just her, but other women in gaming, are readily verifiable and hard to miss. It's not just one person complaining about this stuff.
        mafribe 12y ago
        I doubt the empirical veracity of this claim. You are pushing a convenient mainstream narrative.
- theorique 12y ago
  @nero (on twitter) was sent a syringe in the mail.
doctorfoo 12y ago
I will optimistically assume I am being downvoted for off-topic rather than further whitewashed.
- eli 12y ago
  I don't know what "whitewashed" means in this context, but you are definitely off topic and your comment reads like you are trying to justify some pretty terrible actions. The fact that other bad things happen to other people in no way excuses the bad things that happened to female game developers.
  - doctorfoo 12y ago
    It's the bias in the media. GamerGate supporters are painted uniformly as misogynists. There is a legitimate argument about press ethics, freedom of speech, and whether appreciating an attractive body is the same as objectification. >justify some pretty terrible actions I'm asking that the terrible actions of BOTH sides are reported. There is an awful, hateful minority on both sides, but in the mainstream media, only the terrible actions of the GamerGate side is reported. (And there is surely legitimate argument on both sides, too.)
    - makomk 12y ago
      Not only that, the entire reason harassment against women in gaming is in the news right now is to attack GamerGate. Nearly every article is focused on using it as proof that GamerGate are misogynistic scumbags. It's been a huge boon for every asshole who actually wants to drive women out of gaming - they're guaranteed widespread media coverage about how awful gaming is to women and how their actions represent gamers as a whole, and as a bonus their actions get blamed on people who hate them. Win-win! People have even called for gamers to be forced to use their real names as a solution to the harassment, which would of course make the harassers' lives even easier - but hey, it'd let the people making the proposal bring down social consequences on supporters of GamerGate, so why not? The whole thing's fucking ridiculous.
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
sp332 12y ago
It's just an example, not an exhaustive list.
icebraining 12y ago
Where in that sentence are "GamerGaters" excluded?
- doctorfoo 12y ago
  They are excluded by omission. The words "come under attack from online trolls" link to a further article that paints all GGs as the very devils themselves.

lentil_soup 12y ago

What about a source for that?

doctorfoo 12y ago
https://twitter.com/kingofpol/status/525755692318457856 https://twitter.com/kingofpol/status/525755692318457856 Keywords "gamergate knife".
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  I'm sure all the folks claiming @femfreq made up her death threats will be equally skeptical about this one.
  - doctorfoo 12y ago
    It's tribal warfare, well done! I'd like journalists to report both claims.
  - rudolf0 12y ago
    "KingOfPol" is known for lying and generally being not too mentally stable, so it's certainly not a stretch. Sarkeesian on the other hand is unlikely to lie about such things, but there was clearly some exaggeration involved.
    - mafribe 12y ago
      Why is Sarkeesian "unlikely to lie about such things"?
      - rudolf0 12y ago
        Because she's (sort of) a public figure and if it was revealed she was lying, it would look very bad for her? She also hasn't had a history of lying about such things in the past, so there's no reason to suspect she is now. She is known to have lied about certain other issues, but not in a way that's relevant to threats or harassment. She also doesn't come across as mentally unhinged or malicious. I dislike her, but I don't think she lied about any of the threats. The other person being discussed, KingOfPol, is known for his narcissism and fabrication of stories, so it's a bit different.
        mafribe 12y ago
        That's not an exhaustive analysis. I recommend to look at risk vs reward. The risk of getting caught is essentially zero: just use Tor and VPN via an 'unfriendly' third country to send fake threats to yourself, or get a friend to do that for you. Clearly the police is not going to investigate, because all these cyberthreats are obviously not serious. The upside on the other hand ... Sarkeesian made how much last time by playing the damsel-in-distress? Wasn't it over $100k? That's quite an incentive. And then there is the political effect: the mainstream media, for various reasons, will automatically sides with the damsels. I spent quite a lot of time in activists' milieu and I smell attack techniques in a Leninian mould, see e.g. Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals".
      - ceejayoz 12y ago
        If nothing else, the pattern of harassment and threats made towards not just her, but other women in gaming, are readily verifiable and hard to miss. It's not just one person complaining about this stuff.
        mafribe 12y ago
        I doubt the empirical veracity of this claim. You are pushing a convenient mainstream narrative.
theorique 12y ago
@nero (on twitter) was sent a syringe in the mail.

doctorfoo 12y ago

I will optimistically assume I am being downvoted for off-topic rather than further whitewashed.

eli 12y ago
I don't know what "whitewashed" means in this context, but you are definitely off topic and your comment reads like you are trying to justify some pretty terrible actions. The fact that other bad things happen to other people in no way excuses the bad things that happened to female game developers.
- doctorfoo 12y ago
  It's the bias in the media. GamerGate supporters are painted uniformly as misogynists. There is a legitimate argument about press ethics, freedom of speech, and whether appreciating an attractive body is the same as objectification. >justify some pretty terrible actions I'm asking that the terrible actions of BOTH sides are reported. There is an awful, hateful minority on both sides, but in the mainstream media, only the terrible actions of the GamerGate side is reported. (And there is surely legitimate argument on both sides, too.)
  - makomk 12y ago
    Not only that, the entire reason harassment against women in gaming is in the news right now is to attack GamerGate. Nearly every article is focused on using it as proof that GamerGate are misogynistic scumbags. It's been a huge boon for every asshole who actually wants to drive women out of gaming - they're guaranteed widespread media coverage about how awful gaming is to women and how their actions represent gamers as a whole, and as a bonus their actions get blamed on people who hate them. Win-win! People have even called for gamers to be forced to use their real names as a solution to the harassment, which would of course make the harassers' lives even easier - but hey, it'd let the people making the proposal bring down social consequences on supporters of GamerGate, so why not? The whole thing's fucking ridiculous.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago

sp332 12y ago

It's just an example, not an exhaustive list.

icebraining 12y ago

Where in that sentence are "GamerGaters" excluded?

doctorfoo 12y ago
They are excluded by omission. The words "come under attack from online trolls" link to a further article that paints all GGs as the very devils themselves.