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I have a feeling the kind of parents who (proactively) buy their kids Barbie dolls would probably be horrified if their daughters expressed an interest in softw

I have a feeling the kind of parents who (proactively) buy their kids Barbie dolls would probably be horrified if their daughters expressed an interest in software development.

amykhar 12y ago
Not at all true :) We programming moms were raised with Barbies. It's possible to love both.
robdor 12y ago
Why is that? My daughters play with barbie dolls and I love that they also have an interest in software development.
cwp 12y ago
Not true. Some of use are horrified our daughters have expressed an interest in Barbie.
- troels 12y ago
  That's not actually incompatible with parent's statement.
- tptacek 12y ago
  If your kids are at an ordinary age to be interested in Barbie, I recommend not being "horrified" by anything they do. (That doesn't mean you have to give them Barbie dolls.)
  - cwp 12y ago
    Yeah, good point. I suppose it would be more accurate to say that I'm horrified by Barbie. It's like they're trying really hard to invent more ways for her to be shallow and ditzy. Nevertheless I let my daughter consume the Barbieverse in moderation and wear her Princess dress to school every now and then. I just try to make sure she sees the world through other lenses as well.
- Vixter 12y ago
  My daughter went thru the Barbie phase. However now she is the developer of the FeministHackerBarbie app itself.
tptacek 12y ago
I have the feeling that you've never been a parent to a daughter. Apologies in advance if I've misjudged. Either way: no.
- Alex3917 12y ago
  You're correct. And if your daughter wants the toy, then I guess that's understandable. But my point is that by design Barbie as a character is shallow, anti-intellectual, materialistic, snobbish, etc. I guess my assumption is that most parents who buy their kids the toy actually want that as a role model for their kids, and that this is inherently at odds with a toy that encourages kids to go into STEM or whatever.
  - yongjik 12y ago
    Not really. Do you think parents who buy their kid a teddy bear want them to be grow up as a bear? I think you're overthinking it. Kids will play the way the want, and get what they want. Just trying to make them eat mushroom is hard enough; you're unlikely to influence your kid's opinion on computer science by buying or not buying Barbie dolls. That said, the book in question is definitely cringe-worthy.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Three things. First, the "character" you infer from Barbie isn't fixed in stone, or some universal truth. It's a kid's toy, it isn't going anywhere, and the way we react to it imprints on children. So don't dismiss efforts to change its connotations. Second, be very careful when you dismiss "Barbie as a character", because it is awfully, scarily easy to end up dismissing attributes of women instead of just what you don't like about the character. Just for instance, it's easy to single out elements of "materialism" that stick out to you because you don't care about (I don't know, say) clothes, without giving equal time to shit guys are (as a demo) materialistic about, like (I don't know, say) cars, or FPS games. Finally: my guess is that virtually none of the parents who allow their kids to have Barbie dolls are thinking exactly what you think they're thinking. I think you've forgotten about the fundamental attribution error.

I have a feeling the kind of parents who (proactively) buy their kids Barbie dolls would probably be horrified if their daughters expressed an interest in software development.

amykhar 12y ago

Not at all true :) We programming moms were raised with Barbies. It's possible to love both.

robdor 12y ago

Why is that? My daughters play with barbie dolls and I love that they also have an interest in software development.

cwp 12y ago

Not true. Some of use are horrified our daughters have expressed an interest in Barbie.

troels 12y ago
That's not actually incompatible with parent's statement.
tptacek 12y ago
If your kids are at an ordinary age to be interested in Barbie, I recommend not being "horrified" by anything they do. (That doesn't mean you have to give them Barbie dolls.)
- cwp 12y ago
  Yeah, good point. I suppose it would be more accurate to say that I'm horrified by Barbie. It's like they're trying really hard to invent more ways for her to be shallow and ditzy. Nevertheless I let my daughter consume the Barbieverse in moderation and wear her Princess dress to school every now and then. I just try to make sure she sees the world through other lenses as well.
Vixter 12y ago
My daughter went thru the Barbie phase. However now she is the developer of the FeministHackerBarbie app itself.

tptacek 12y ago

I have the feeling that you've never been a parent to a daughter. Apologies in advance if I've misjudged. Either way: no.

Alex3917 12y ago
You're correct. And if your daughter wants the toy, then I guess that's understandable. But my point is that by design Barbie as a character is shallow, anti-intellectual, materialistic, snobbish, etc. I guess my assumption is that most parents who buy their kids the toy actually want that as a role model for their kids, and that this is inherently at odds with a toy that encourages kids to go into STEM or whatever.
- yongjik 12y ago
  Not really. Do you think parents who buy their kid a teddy bear want them to be grow up as a bear? I think you're overthinking it. Kids will play the way the want, and get what they want. Just trying to make them eat mushroom is hard enough; you're unlikely to influence your kid's opinion on computer science by buying or not buying Barbie dolls. That said, the book in question is definitely cringe-worthy.
- tptacek 12y ago
  Three things. First, the "character" you infer from Barbie isn't fixed in stone, or some universal truth. It's a kid's toy, it isn't going anywhere, and the way we react to it imprints on children. So don't dismiss efforts to change its connotations. Second, be very careful when you dismiss "Barbie as a character", because it is awfully, scarily easy to end up dismissing attributes of women instead of just what you don't like about the character. Just for instance, it's easy to single out elements of "materialism" that stick out to you because you don't care about (I don't know, say) clothes, without giving equal time to shit guys are (as a demo) materialistic about, like (I don't know, say) cars, or FPS games. Finally: my guess is that virtually none of the parents who allow their kids to have Barbie dolls are thinking exactly what you think they're thinking. I think you've forgotten about the fundamental attribution error.