4 ms·

Humans are pretty flexible when it comes to language, what sounds awkward or verbose can often become completely natural over time. That said I agree that it's

Humans are pretty flexible when it comes to language, what sounds awkward or verbose can often become completely natural over time. That said I agree that it's easier to make smaller language changes stick. There might be an alternative way to phrase things neutrally that's easier to say though. (passive?)

throwaway981 12y ago
Yet if neither men nor women wish to change their own language, why must it be changed? Sometimes HN reminds me of Christian missionaries: interposing themselves into foreign cultures that they do not understand and saying "No! No! It's all wrong! You do it our way." It is an ugly kind of imperialism.
- ajuc 12y ago
  Meh, nobody is using guns, and the discussion is interesting. I just don't like the assumptions some people make (I've heard that my culture is inherently sexist for example).
ajuc 12y ago
Yes, passive works as well, as long as you don't need to have 2 or more agents doing different things. Still it's longer, contrived, and sounds like legal text. Regarding small changes - not possible :) In English I would like "hen" to exist, cause it's often useful. In Polish it wouldn't change a thing, you'd need to change the underlying system if you want gender-neutral language, and at that point you may as well invent a new language. Every word (ending) will change anyway, that means words work differently with cases, numbers, plurality works differently. People would need to relearn the whole thing. But most importantly I really don't think the language is the problem. In Poland there are more female doctors than male. Same with teachers. Yet the default word for unknown gender doctor or teacher is male, and the plural is made from male versions usually. Haven't stopped women to dominate these fields. Anyway, thanks for discussion.

4 ms·

Humans are pretty flexible when it comes to language, what sounds awkward or verbose can often become completely natural over time. That said I agree that it's

by aninhumer 12y ago

throwaway981 12y ago
Yet if neither men nor women wish to change their own language, why must it be changed? Sometimes HN reminds me of Christian missionaries: interposing themselves into foreign cultures that they do not understand and saying "No! No! It's all wrong! You do it our way." It is an ugly kind of imperialism.
- ajuc 12y ago
  Meh, nobody is using guns, and the discussion is interesting. I just don't like the assumptions some people make (I've heard that my culture is inherently sexist for example).
ajuc 12y ago
Yes, passive works as well, as long as you don't need to have 2 or more agents doing different things. Still it's longer, contrived, and sounds like legal text. Regarding small changes - not possible :) In English I would like "hen" to exist, cause it's often useful. In Polish it wouldn't change a thing, you'd need to change the underlying system if you want gender-neutral language, and at that point you may as well invent a new language. Every word (ending) will change anyway, that means words work differently with cases, numbers, plurality works differently. People would need to relearn the whole thing. But most importantly I really don't think the language is the problem. In Poland there are more female doctors than male. Same with teachers. Yet the default word for unknown gender doctor or teacher is male, and the plural is made from male versions usually. Haven't stopped women to dominate these fields. Anyway, thanks for discussion.