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Is it gaming's loss if great literature aren't games? The majority of Twine games have no interactivity at all, which pretty much removes a fundamental thing th
by A_COMPUTER 12y ago
Is it gaming's loss if great literature aren't games? The majority of Twine games have no interactivity at all, which pretty much removes a fundamental thing that defines a game. Same with most visual novels, they are called games too but really aren't. I know I am in a shrinking minority here, but I don't mind if things can be good but not be called games. Some Twine games have interactivity and some don't. Most are bad because it doesn't matter how simple the tool is to use, it still takes work and skill to write something entertaining. I have played some pretty fun Twine games but they really are just like reading a book with punctuated pacing. The reality is that you can do this with plain old books too (you can for instance break a sentence from one page to the next, surprising the reader with a twist, or just a surprise ending, period) but nobody calls them games. Choose your own adventure books are called choose your own adventure books. They all have more interactivity than most Twine games.
What I find really interesting is that so many of the same people that want games and interactive media criticism to be taken seriously get so massively bent out of shape when you actually, you know, participate in that and criticize what they're asserting (I am talking about critics and game journalists here, there are ludic studies that are academically sound and subject themselves to confrontational challenge.) If you push the issue it turns into a meta argument about who gets to call what a game, which is a legitimate question but at the end of the day a bunch of serious game journalists and game forum moderators call Depression Quest a game and I get shunned for disagreeing so I don't totally take their underdog posturing seriously and consider its invocation to usually be dishonest. Part of being taken seriously is being able to defend claims rather than just attacking the person contradicting you.
Anyway, here is a Twine game that I really enjoyed, it even has an anti-gamergate story: http://storycade.com/twine-quings-quest-vii-death-videogames/ http://storycade.com/twine-quings-quest-vii-death-videogames... It was part of "Ruin Jam 2014", a game jam whose name plays on the claim that "SJWs are trying to ruin gaming."
- chipsy 12y agoYour premise requires an invalidation of modes of interactivity as meaningful. To transpose Twine works into a book is actually a considerable adaptation in many cases, because the form of discovery in Twine requires clicking hyperlinks and watching text appear or disappear - not turning pages! What the critical majority is going for in their understanding of "game" is this idea of "novel interactivity" - that the author is primarily interested in the mode of interactivity, vs. communicating through an established mode like a book or song. The status quo that you're pointing to is "systemic interactivity" - the part of "game" that employs rules, player agency, and simulation. The issue with upholding systemic interactivity is that then you can reason your way into a situation where many video games are not games because on a broad level, they reach predetermined outcomes in the service of a designed story. And then you will say that adventure games are not games, puzzle games are not games, etc. There are some designers who take this kind of stance[0], but as you acknowledge, they're in the minority. [0] http://keithburgun.net/are-games-a-storytelling-medium-guest-article-by-fabian-fischer/ http://keithburgun.net/are-games-a-storytelling-medium-guest...
- A_COMPUTER 12y ago>Your premise requires an invalidation of modes of interactivity as meaningful. I feel this is worded a little strongly. I alluded to the fact that even just books can have modes of interactivity, but we don't consider them games. >then you will say that adventure games are not games, puzzle games are not games, etc. I believe that this is where some people's intuitive sense that something isn't a game comes from. Thanks for the link, I liked it a lot. I bob in and out of this stuff but I'm inspired to take it more seriously again.