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Can i just say that clearly everyone knows its not the best tool for an actual serious project, but theres nothing wrong with whimsy. Its fun to do things becau

Can i just say that clearly everyone knows its not the best tool for an actual serious project, but theres nothing wrong with whimsy. Its fun to do things because you can, that doesnt mean its going to become a serious tool. We just had a story about "Stupid Projects From The Stupid Hackathon"[1], just because its not a serious tool doesnt mean we should be throwing the hate, lets just take it for what it is, a bit of fun and a project you do because you can. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8621886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8621886

antihero 12y ago
The problem with whimsical projects is that eventually people make things in them thinking they are serious, and then other people have to maintain said things.
- mox1 12y ago
  kind of like javascript (originally created in 10 days)...[1] Eventually if people like the core idea, these things enter a positive feedback loop and the quality goes up. If nobody likes it or uses it...no harm. [1] https://www.w3.org/community/webed/wiki/A_Short_History_of_JavaScript https://www.w3.org/community/webed/wiki/A_Short_History_of_J...
  - Alupis 12y ago
    well, some people would argue javascript is [still] a mess. Douglas Crockford has spent a career pointing out a lot of the weak spots (while still loving the language mind you). PHP started out as a non-serious project, and today it's had some serious problems (multi-threading to name one). However, on the other hand, there are also projects that start out as non-serious and get serious quick - the Linux kernel comes to mind. I guess it can go two ways, but I'd contend a project that is started out with short-cuts because the author doesn't anticipate or plan for it to scale, will have a much tougher time doing so.
    - icelancer 12y ago
      >(multi-threading to name one) This isn't a problem in 5.5+ if you know what you're doing. That the language has a lot of people with no idea what they're doing is a testament to the fact PHP is easy to use and most others aren't for a novice, not that the language sucks. I'm not the biggest PHP fan but since 5.3 most of the criticisms are unwarranted.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
      > PHP started out as a non-serious project, and today it's had some serious problems (multi-threading to name one). What's the multi-threading problem? The engine is thread-safe.
      - Alupis 12y ago
        it wasn't always... that is a relatively new thing.
- kelvin0 12y ago
  Isn't that how PHP was created in the first place? And it just caught liek wildfire ... the rest is history as they say
  - nolok 12y ago
    No PHP was not created as "stupid project" (meaning knowingly not a good idea), it was a very real project for Rasmus meant for his own webpages and after with a few other people. He merely didn't expect so many people to start using too. Originally he was not creating a language, but a set a scripts for common features.
- undersuit 12y ago
  >then other people have to maintain said things. No they don't.
- pizza 12y ago
  Well, it's the responsibility of the people who think some implementation requires this library to maintain it themselves, and as such whether or not that secondary implementation is intractable or not shouldn't really have any bearing on evaluation of OP's project... I could agree with this precautionary argument if somehow you were being forced to create/maintain such an application (for your job or something), but otherwise there's no difference.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >and then other people have to maintain said things. Only if they chose to. Last time I checked, developers aren't slaves.
coldtea 12y ago
>Can i just say that clearly everyone knows its not the best tool for an actual serious project, but theres nothing wrong with whimsy. Besides it just starting and not having a big community atm, I don't see nothing "clear" about it now being "the best tool for an actual serious project". Is it the "eww PHP" knee-jerk reaction some people have?

antihero 12y ago

The problem with whimsical projects is that eventually people make things in them thinking they are serious, and then other people have to maintain said things.

mox1 12y ago
kind of like javascript (originally created in 10 days)...[1] Eventually if people like the core idea, these things enter a positive feedback loop and the quality goes up. If nobody likes it or uses it...no harm. [1] https://www.w3.org/community/webed/wiki/A_Short_History_of_JavaScript https://www.w3.org/community/webed/wiki/A_Short_History_of_J...
- Alupis 12y ago
  well, some people would argue javascript is [still] a mess. Douglas Crockford has spent a career pointing out a lot of the weak spots (while still loving the language mind you). PHP started out as a non-serious project, and today it's had some serious problems (multi-threading to name one). However, on the other hand, there are also projects that start out as non-serious and get serious quick - the Linux kernel comes to mind. I guess it can go two ways, but I'd contend a project that is started out with short-cuts because the author doesn't anticipate or plan for it to scale, will have a much tougher time doing so.
  - icelancer 12y ago
    >(multi-threading to name one) This isn't a problem in 5.5+ if you know what you're doing. That the language has a lot of people with no idea what they're doing is a testament to the fact PHP is easy to use and most others aren't for a novice, not that the language sucks. I'm not the biggest PHP fan but since 5.3 most of the criticisms are unwarranted.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    > PHP started out as a non-serious project, and today it's had some serious problems (multi-threading to name one). What's the multi-threading problem? The engine is thread-safe.
    - Alupis 12y ago
      it wasn't always... that is a relatively new thing.
kelvin0 12y ago
Isn't that how PHP was created in the first place? And it just caught liek wildfire ... the rest is history as they say
- nolok 12y ago
  No PHP was not created as "stupid project" (meaning knowingly not a good idea), it was a very real project for Rasmus meant for his own webpages and after with a few other people. He merely didn't expect so many people to start using too. Originally he was not creating a language, but a set a scripts for common features.
undersuit 12y ago
>then other people have to maintain said things. No they don't.
pizza 12y ago
Well, it's the responsibility of the people who think some implementation requires this library to maintain it themselves, and as such whether or not that secondary implementation is intractable or not shouldn't really have any bearing on evaluation of OP's project... I could agree with this precautionary argument if somehow you were being forced to create/maintain such an application (for your job or something), but otherwise there's no difference.
coldtea 12y ago
>and then other people have to maintain said things. Only if they chose to. Last time I checked, developers aren't slaves.

coldtea 12y ago

>Can i just say that clearly everyone knows its not the best tool for an actual serious project, but theres nothing wrong with whimsy. Besides it just starting and not having a big community atm, I don't see nothing "clear" about it now being "the best tool for an actual serious project". Is it the "eww PHP" knee-jerk reaction some people have?