4 ms·

>systemd and Upstart are both a large improvement over the System V init scripts. Userland utils like wget depending on a specific init package is a large impr

• pantalaimon 12y ago
  How is wget depending on systemd?
  • Macha 12y ago
    So I had to look this up. On Arch at least, wget depends on util-linux (package containing kernel tools like mount, dmesg etc.): https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/wget/ https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/wget/ And util-linux depends on systemd: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/libutil-linux/ https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/libutil-linux... I have to assume this is Arch-specific, because I can't anything that basic as util-linux including a dependency on a specific init tool (and given there are still distros using other inits than systemd and still working fine...)
    • 1_player 12y ago
      The systemd is a make dependency only. Unless you plan on compiling it yourself, you don't need systemd to run it. ~ $ y -Qi libutil-linux | grep Depends Depends On : None EDIT: conversely, these are the packages depending on systemd: ~ $ y -Qi systemd | grep Required | fmt Required By : accountsservice chromium colord crda cups device-mapper gnome-session lib32-systemd libgdm libgusb libpulse libusb libvirt libwacom lvm2 media-player-info mesa mkinitcpio netctl polkit procps-ng qt5-base qtwebkit rtkit spotify subversion systemd-sysvcompat udisks2 upower xf86-input-evdev xf86-video-ati xf86-video-modesetting As a sysadmin and developer I don't understand this systemd-hate. If you ever have written a /etc/init.d script for a python non-daemoning script running in a virtualenv, or something to the same effect, you'd notice the improvement over SysV init scripts. Upstart is nice too, but as a Linux desktop user I love socket activation: I can have cups, avahi and other optional/non-critical daemons "active" but not actually using any resource, until effectively used by some other process.
      • exarch 12y ago
        >If you ever have written a /etc/init.d script for a python non-daemoning script running in a virtualenv, or something to the same effect, you'd notice the improvement over SysV init scripts. These are solved problems. You're creating a bunch of low level OS spaghetti because you don't want to have to write a shell script for your software? That is not a responsible decision-making process, that's moving the mountain to you.
        • digi_owl 12y ago
          And making it harder for someone to come afterwards and untangle the mess. I swear a earlier discussion here on this very site had someone honestly suggest the usage of strace to figure out why systemd failed to boot.
        • the_why_of_y 12y ago
          Countless subtle race conditions and security issues in the shell spaghetti that makes up real-world init scripts indicate that it's not a "solved problem".
    • cesarb 12y ago
      That's probably because util-linux has a command, logger, which can optionally log to systemd's journal. Take a look at http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/logger.1.html http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/logger.1.html.
  • cozzyd 12y ago
    Probably accidentally, due to a poorly abstracted dependency chain.
  • octoid 12y ago
    Debian: [wget]-depends-[libuuid1]-recommends-[uuid-runtime]-depends-[libsystemd0] Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn