3 ms·

This surprises me, what exactly is the point of encoding what are essentially different fonts in unicode? Isn't that the job of the presentation layer? (the Fr

This surprises me, what exactly is the point of encoding what are essentially different fonts in unicode? Isn't that the job of the presentation layer? (the Fraktur variant is awesome btw, and is apparently in the valid unicode range for Java...)

masklinn 12y ago
The graphical difference has semantic significance in some domains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbo...
- Flimm 12y ago
  Indeed, this is technically a misuse of Unicode.
  - masklinn 12y ago
    It's unclear whether you're talking about the page or the unicode block. For the page, that's fairly obvious when you look at the pseudoalphabet converters.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    If you refer to those characters, no it's not. It's not just a different style for the same character, it has semantic meaning.
- MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
  I guess that makes sense. Personally I find it annoying how mathematical notation seems so intractable today. Things that are easily understood in code for me are a mystery in math notation. But I guess there will never be an overhaul with a more intuitive typography...
  - RBerenguel 12y ago
    Keep in mind it is also true the other way around. Something can be mathematically clear to someone and totally a mystery in code form. Each one has his/her strengths and weaknesses.
    - MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
      Probably true, and I guess if you're a mathematician, you quickly get used the symbols. And I'm not arguing against having those symbols in the first place, its just that some of them have an 19th century feel to them, and do not seem intuitive. The art of typography and signage really only matured in the 20th century, and I'm certain some of the symbols would look very different if they were designed today. Anything that helps with teaching math and making it appear friendlier is a plus, imho.
      - tormeh 12y ago
        It's like three-letter names in assembly. It's good when you're doing it, but step away from it for a while and you can't remember what the signs mean anymore.
      - RBerenguel 12y ago
        I'm not sure what symbols are you hinting at. First I thought it was to Fraktur kind of letters, but obviously this shouldn't be the case, as you point "teaching" as a plus of redesigning them, and Fraktur symbols are used "traditionally" in relatively high level algebra (for some reason some symbols are used more in some realms, for me Fraktur started appearing when talking about complex stuff about ideals). Once you get used to them, it's like a second language, and that's it. I remember reading Feynman used his own symbols for sin, cos and other basic functions (turning them to one-stroke symbols) but he had to give up once he had to talk with other people. Math symbols are more or less a universal language. Once you know how the symbol appeared, or get used to "reading it right" they are totally natural. I don't see ∂ as a "weird d," I read this as "partial." It wasn't natural at first, but I got used to it, just like I got used to English.
    - 12y ago
Houshalter 12y ago
You can copy and paste them, use them in applications that don't support formatting, save them to a text file, etc.
afandian 12y ago
For an enlightening read, buy a copy of the Unicode standard. An amazing book, containing what I think is the single greatest achievement in anthropology. And read about the history and the imperfect process that has produced a system with duplicates, inconsistencies, but a system nonetheless.

masklinn 12y ago

The graphical difference has semantic significance in some domains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbo...

Flimm 12y ago
Indeed, this is technically a misuse of Unicode.
- masklinn 12y ago
  It's unclear whether you're talking about the page or the unicode block. For the page, that's fairly obvious when you look at the pseudoalphabet converters.
- coldtea 12y ago
  If you refer to those characters, no it's not. It's not just a different style for the same character, it has semantic meaning.
MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
I guess that makes sense. Personally I find it annoying how mathematical notation seems so intractable today. Things that are easily understood in code for me are a mystery in math notation. But I guess there will never be an overhaul with a more intuitive typography...
- RBerenguel 12y ago
  Keep in mind it is also true the other way around. Something can be mathematically clear to someone and totally a mystery in code form. Each one has his/her strengths and weaknesses.
  - MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
    Probably true, and I guess if you're a mathematician, you quickly get used the symbols. And I'm not arguing against having those symbols in the first place, its just that some of them have an 19th century feel to them, and do not seem intuitive. The art of typography and signage really only matured in the 20th century, and I'm certain some of the symbols would look very different if they were designed today. Anything that helps with teaching math and making it appear friendlier is a plus, imho.
    - tormeh 12y ago
      It's like three-letter names in assembly. It's good when you're doing it, but step away from it for a while and you can't remember what the signs mean anymore.
    - RBerenguel 12y ago
      I'm not sure what symbols are you hinting at. First I thought it was to Fraktur kind of letters, but obviously this shouldn't be the case, as you point "teaching" as a plus of redesigning them, and Fraktur symbols are used "traditionally" in relatively high level algebra (for some reason some symbols are used more in some realms, for me Fraktur started appearing when talking about complex stuff about ideals). Once you get used to them, it's like a second language, and that's it. I remember reading Feynman used his own symbols for sin, cos and other basic functions (turning them to one-stroke symbols) but he had to give up once he had to talk with other people. Math symbols are more or less a universal language. Once you know how the symbol appeared, or get used to "reading it right" they are totally natural. I don't see ∂ as a "weird d," I read this as "partial." It wasn't natural at first, but I got used to it, just like I got used to English.
  - 12y ago

Houshalter 12y ago

You can copy and paste them, use them in applications that don't support formatting, save them to a text file, etc.

afandian 12y ago

For an enlightening read, buy a copy of the Unicode standard. An amazing book, containing what I think is the single greatest achievement in anthropology. And read about the history and the imperfect process that has produced a system with duplicates, inconsistencies, but a system nonetheless.