7 ms·

So I cycle around SF, but am considering stopping. The data varies depending on which source you use, but it seems like cycling is about 3 times less dangerous

by sinak 12y ago

So I cycle around SF, but am considering stopping. The data varies depending on which source you use, but it seems like cycling is about 3 times less dangerous than motorbiking, and considerably (at least ~5-10x) more dangerous than driving. Most people who've lived in SF have plenty of anecdotal evidence of friends who've been hurt, often seriously, by bike accidents. I'd love to be proven wrong about this: I love cycling and particularly like getting built-in exercise in my routine. And I'll continue to donate to the SF bicycle coalition, and vote for improving infrastructure to support cyclists. It just seems most rational to stop actually cycling.

ihaveajob 12y ago
It has been shown that the biggest factor in bike safety is the number of cyclists on the road. The more bikes, the more aware drivers are of our presence. In SF, Critical Mass had (I've learned) a huge impact in breaking ground for bike infrastructure. Currently, the Bay Area Bike Share has become a strong factor. If we stop biking now until it's safer, it might never be so.
- fixedd 12y ago
  There's also been shown to be an inverse correlation between wearing a helmet and safety. It seems that motorists correlate "having a helmet on" with being safe, and so are more aggressive around those who are wearing.
  - codezero 12y ago
    Where has this been shown? Since I bike daily, I'm really curious about studies about helmet safety.
    - gst 12y ago
      This sounds related: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/5334208.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/5334208....
      - codezero 12y ago
        Interesting, but not really definitive. Seems like there's a big factor related to the size of the bike lane as well. There could also be a bias towards male and female cyclists, since this experiment was conducted using a wig to make the rider look female with no helmet on. Would still like to see more. My current ride gives me a pretty huge bike lane, and so far I've felt better with a helmet on than without.
    - aidos 12y ago
      Probably referring to the study in the uk to examine how overtaking distances of passing vehicles is affected by the attire of the cyclist [1]. There's suggestions that making helmets compulsory reduces cyclists, which in turn makes cycling unsafer. I cycle in London every day (for the past 10 years) and personally don't wear a helmet (though plenty of my friends do). I tried, but found for me it was a mild occasional obstruction to my peripheral vision - something I value highly on the road. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm
      - codezero 12y ago
        I want to make a joke about how you all ride on the wrong side of the road, but your points are all too good to snipe at :)
- sinak 12y ago
  I agree: more cyclists is good. But risking my own health and safety to make SF drivers more aware of cyclists just doesn't work for me. I think this is called a "social trap" by sociologists. I'm not sure there's an easy solution. But for my part if I stop cycling, I'll make sure to up my donations to the bicycle coalition.
- dirkdk 12y ago
  I grew up riding my bike in Amsterdam, it was there my main method of transportation, as it is here in SF. I never ever wore a helmet in Amsterdam, but here I do. Main reason: not my driving capabilities, but car drivers that don't think about cyclists, whereas in Amsterdam they do. Opening their door next to the bike lane? Looking to their right hand side when turning left? Using their turning signal, especially when taking a right turn at a red light? Second, roads are obviously way more laid out for cars and not for bicycles. Four way stops are a pain. Roads with no designated bike lane means you are passed by cars that actively have to avoid you, while driving 3-4x as fast. Traffic lights leave too little time between one side turning red and the other turning green. In the Netherlands, if you hit a bicycle with your car you are automatically responsible. That will make you more aware of bikes. I always compare the advent of bicycles to snowboarders entering the slopes over the last 30 years that were ruled by skiers. Different ways of moving, where the new people are seen as the odd ones. Yes to dare to enter you have to love a bit of adventure and sometimes bend the rules, but it is mostly perception. We just have to get used to each other and work it out
birken 12y ago
There is no doubt that biking is more dangerous than driving. However, biking is still extremely safe. And for the safety conscious person, especially for a beginner, I'd suggest only biking routes that you are familiar with and that include safe bike lines. For many people, especially people working in SOMA, this could probably include your daily commute. If you don't believe there are safe options, or you are unfamiliar with the route, then don't bike it and use another transportation option. I don't want to pretend that biking is safer than it is, but there is a big difference in difficulty between biking on market st at 4:30pm on a weekday vs biking through GGP on a sunday. So I'd say instead of giving up biking entirely, just perhaps phase out a the trips that you are uncomfortable with, or try to find a different route for those.
- ultrasaurus 12y ago
  Also Google's biking directions deserve a shout-out for generally giving directions that are 90% covered in bike lanes. It's rare that I'm able to find a better route than it suggests in SF.
stanleydrew 12y ago
I've ridden my bike to and from work in SF nearly every day for the past 4 years and have only once come close to being in an accident with a car. But every day I see plenty of other cyclists making overly-aggressive moves that put themselves and other people in danger. You may claim that I'm blaming the victim, but from what I've observed many cyclists kind of enjoy a little (in their opinion) justified indignation at the behavior of car drivers. And they'll intentionally put themselves in positions to feel that justified rage. How many times have you seen a cyclist in the right-hand bike lane try to overtake a car signaling for a right turn while both are approaching an intersection, rather than yielding to the car who will clearly reach the intersection first? And then the cyclist acts surprised and offended when the driver begins to turn into them. Of course this is a recipe for disaster, and I see it multiple times per week from my position a safe distance back from the turning car, which I can observe and then safely pass on the left. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be safe on a bike. Just use your head and ride a bit defensively.
- ibrahima 12y ago
  Ugh, this is so true. As a (grad) student who bikes to campus, I hate dealing with drivers who have been conditioned by the inconsiderate other cyclists. I personally always yield to cars in right turn lanes and that sort of thing, but sometimes they also slow down because they're used to asshole cyclists cutting in front of them, so it just causes confusion and tension from both sides. Well, tension mostly on my side, because a mistake is much more costly to me than to the driver :(. I don't get why other people don't bike more defensively, it's terrifying to me.
  - lamontcg 12y ago
    I've been going downhill at a reasonable clip and taking the center of the lane (because of speed and the hazards of card doors opening up suddenly) and had cars behind me be so impatient to pass me that they'll forget to check for oncoming traffic and nearly get into head on collisions with other cars. I also started pulling fully into the lane because even though I'm travelling at speed downhill I've had cars pass me, with about an inch to spare when there was oncoming traffic and they were nearly pulling into the other lane -- I've had to take the tactic to force them to choose between flat out murdering me or else getting into a head on collision if there's oncoming traffic. Another time there was construction with cones out and I went inside most of the cones and let cars by, but had to merge into traffic around a cone where the actual construction was happening -- and a car decided they couldn't be slowed down for a second by a bike in front of them and they passed me and ate a traffic cone and dragged it under their car for 2 blocks. Some people just completely lose it when they have a bike in front of them that is going to slow them down for even a second or two. I don't know if its rage or stupidity, but they get really, really dumb. I can't wait until manual driving on freeways and in major cities is just banned and everyone has to have their cars on computer control. All the road rage goes away, all the inattention, all the derp would just go away, and traffic would move faster, and all the headgames would be gone -- replace it all with google algorithms that know how to pass a bike safely.
ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
In population wide studies the health benefits of regular cycling vastly outweigh (no pun intended) the increase in accidents/fatalities.
WalterBright 12y ago
I live in Seattle, and gave up biking on the streets years ago. Just too dangerous. I remember a public service commercial on TV in the 60's which would exhort people to drive defensively, even when they were in the right. The tag line was "don't be dead right". I see more and more cyclists on the road, and too many ride like they're invulnerable if they're in the right. They'll do things like stop in the middle of the road around a blind corner. They'll ride on the stripe that separates the bike lane from the road. They'll force overtaking drivers to move into oncoming traffic to get around them. I've talked to local bike activists, and their attitude is if they're in the right, it's the car driver's problem. I just don't get it. What good is being in the right if you're dead?

by sinak 12y ago

ihaveajob 12y ago

It has been shown that the biggest factor in bike safety is the number of cyclists on the road. The more bikes, the more aware drivers are of our presence. In SF, Critical Mass had (I've learned) a huge impact in breaking ground for bike infrastructure. Currently, the Bay Area Bike Share has become a strong factor. If we stop biking now until it's safer, it might never be so.

fixedd 12y ago
There's also been shown to be an inverse correlation between wearing a helmet and safety. It seems that motorists correlate "having a helmet on" with being safe, and so are more aggressive around those who are wearing.
- codezero 12y ago
  Where has this been shown? Since I bike daily, I'm really curious about studies about helmet safety.
  - gst 12y ago
    This sounds related: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/5334208.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/5334208....
    - codezero 12y ago
      Interesting, but not really definitive. Seems like there's a big factor related to the size of the bike lane as well. There could also be a bias towards male and female cyclists, since this experiment was conducted using a wig to make the rider look female with no helmet on. Would still like to see more. My current ride gives me a pretty huge bike lane, and so far I've felt better with a helmet on than without.
  - aidos 12y ago
    Probably referring to the study in the uk to examine how overtaking distances of passing vehicles is affected by the attire of the cyclist [1]. There's suggestions that making helmets compulsory reduces cyclists, which in turn makes cycling unsafer. I cycle in London every day (for the past 10 years) and personally don't wear a helmet (though plenty of my friends do). I tried, but found for me it was a mild occasional obstruction to my peripheral vision - something I value highly on the road. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm
    - codezero 12y ago
      I want to make a joke about how you all ride on the wrong side of the road, but your points are all too good to snipe at :)
sinak 12y ago
I agree: more cyclists is good. But risking my own health and safety to make SF drivers more aware of cyclists just doesn't work for me. I think this is called a "social trap" by sociologists. I'm not sure there's an easy solution. But for my part if I stop cycling, I'll make sure to up my donations to the bicycle coalition.
dirkdk 12y ago
I grew up riding my bike in Amsterdam, it was there my main method of transportation, as it is here in SF. I never ever wore a helmet in Amsterdam, but here I do. Main reason: not my driving capabilities, but car drivers that don't think about cyclists, whereas in Amsterdam they do. Opening their door next to the bike lane? Looking to their right hand side when turning left? Using their turning signal, especially when taking a right turn at a red light? Second, roads are obviously way more laid out for cars and not for bicycles. Four way stops are a pain. Roads with no designated bike lane means you are passed by cars that actively have to avoid you, while driving 3-4x as fast. Traffic lights leave too little time between one side turning red and the other turning green. In the Netherlands, if you hit a bicycle with your car you are automatically responsible. That will make you more aware of bikes. I always compare the advent of bicycles to snowboarders entering the slopes over the last 30 years that were ruled by skiers. Different ways of moving, where the new people are seen as the odd ones. Yes to dare to enter you have to love a bit of adventure and sometimes bend the rules, but it is mostly perception. We just have to get used to each other and work it out

birken 12y ago

There is no doubt that biking is more dangerous than driving. However, biking is still extremely safe. And for the safety conscious person, especially for a beginner, I'd suggest only biking routes that you are familiar with and that include safe bike lines. For many people, especially people working in SOMA, this could probably include your daily commute. If you don't believe there are safe options, or you are unfamiliar with the route, then don't bike it and use another transportation option. I don't want to pretend that biking is safer than it is, but there is a big difference in difficulty between biking on market st at 4:30pm on a weekday vs biking through GGP on a sunday. So I'd say instead of giving up biking entirely, just perhaps phase out a the trips that you are uncomfortable with, or try to find a different route for those.

ultrasaurus 12y ago
Also Google's biking directions deserve a shout-out for generally giving directions that are 90% covered in bike lanes. It's rare that I'm able to find a better route than it suggests in SF.

stanleydrew 12y ago

I've ridden my bike to and from work in SF nearly every day for the past 4 years and have only once come close to being in an accident with a car. But every day I see plenty of other cyclists making overly-aggressive moves that put themselves and other people in danger. You may claim that I'm blaming the victim, but from what I've observed many cyclists kind of enjoy a little (in their opinion) justified indignation at the behavior of car drivers. And they'll intentionally put themselves in positions to feel that justified rage. How many times have you seen a cyclist in the right-hand bike lane try to overtake a car signaling for a right turn while both are approaching an intersection, rather than yielding to the car who will clearly reach the intersection first? And then the cyclist acts surprised and offended when the driver begins to turn into them. Of course this is a recipe for disaster, and I see it multiple times per week from my position a safe distance back from the turning car, which I can observe and then safely pass on the left. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be safe on a bike. Just use your head and ride a bit defensively.

ibrahima 12y ago
Ugh, this is so true. As a (grad) student who bikes to campus, I hate dealing with drivers who have been conditioned by the inconsiderate other cyclists. I personally always yield to cars in right turn lanes and that sort of thing, but sometimes they also slow down because they're used to asshole cyclists cutting in front of them, so it just causes confusion and tension from both sides. Well, tension mostly on my side, because a mistake is much more costly to me than to the driver :(. I don't get why other people don't bike more defensively, it's terrifying to me.
- lamontcg 12y ago
  I've been going downhill at a reasonable clip and taking the center of the lane (because of speed and the hazards of card doors opening up suddenly) and had cars behind me be so impatient to pass me that they'll forget to check for oncoming traffic and nearly get into head on collisions with other cars. I also started pulling fully into the lane because even though I'm travelling at speed downhill I've had cars pass me, with about an inch to spare when there was oncoming traffic and they were nearly pulling into the other lane -- I've had to take the tactic to force them to choose between flat out murdering me or else getting into a head on collision if there's oncoming traffic. Another time there was construction with cones out and I went inside most of the cones and let cars by, but had to merge into traffic around a cone where the actual construction was happening -- and a car decided they couldn't be slowed down for a second by a bike in front of them and they passed me and ate a traffic cone and dragged it under their car for 2 blocks. Some people just completely lose it when they have a bike in front of them that is going to slow them down for even a second or two. I don't know if its rage or stupidity, but they get really, really dumb. I can't wait until manual driving on freeways and in major cities is just banned and everyone has to have their cars on computer control. All the road rage goes away, all the inattention, all the derp would just go away, and traffic would move faster, and all the headgames would be gone -- replace it all with google algorithms that know how to pass a bike safely.

ibmthrowaway218 12y ago

In population wide studies the health benefits of regular cycling vastly outweigh (no pun intended) the increase in accidents/fatalities.

WalterBright 12y ago

I live in Seattle, and gave up biking on the streets years ago. Just too dangerous. I remember a public service commercial on TV in the 60's which would exhort people to drive defensively, even when they were in the right. The tag line was "don't be dead right". I see more and more cyclists on the road, and too many ride like they're invulnerable if they're in the right. They'll do things like stop in the middle of the road around a blind corner. They'll ride on the stripe that separates the bike lane from the road. They'll force overtaking drivers to move into oncoming traffic to get around them. I've talked to local bike activists, and their attitude is if they're in the right, it's the car driver's problem. I just don't get it. What good is being in the right if you're dead?