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Let's flip it again; what are signs that various female dominated occupations have a misandry problem in the same fashion? The thing we were just discussing wit

Let's flip it again; what are signs that various female dominated occupations have a misandry problem in the same fashion? The thing we were just discussing with avions de chasses, why is that intrinsically misogynistic while the similarly themed ManServant startup is not intrinsically misandrist? Why are the attacks on the former a blaring cacophony and the attacks on the latter practically non-existent? I don't think it's reasonable to actually claim that something so broad can actually exist unless it's utterly global. It's individuals that make choices on their acceptable behaviours, not the industries in which they are employed. Some individuals are misogynistic or misandrist, and they might be drawn to industries where their own gender is dominant, but using that as a petard to attack those industries in entirety and everyone involved within them strikes me as missing the problem entirely.

jacalata 12y ago
Because manservants is just another instance of an actual escort service where the audience is "people who want an escort service", and the avions de chasse is the insertion of an escort service into an otherwise everyday service that has an audience of people who (i suspect) mostly aren't interested in an escort service. Its similar to how a billboard that is OK in the red light district won't be acceptable in the main street or the suburbs.
- etherael 12y ago
  Manservants is explicitly not an escort service (http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/07/the-manservants-service-is-not-for-sex-but-it-should-be/375355/ http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/07/the-manservants-service-...) (http://manservants.co/become-a-manservant.html http://manservants.co/become-a-manservant.html), though. In both instances it's simply trading on the sexual market value of men or women (just because it's not sex doesn't mean the sexual market value of the person in question isn't relevant, see booth babes, ad et al). If you consider this to be misogynistic or misandrist in either instance, it ought to be in both.
  - jacalata 12y ago
    Sure, I forgot the non-escort bit - although as you say, it is definitely about sexual attraction. However the defining point I made was that ManServants is explicitly joining that market of sexual market value, but Uber is adding that service to their existing commodity service which did not express interest in it. I consider it unnecessarily sexual to do the latter, but not the former.I consider it misogynist because they have looked at a large mixed gender audience and decided to cater to the sexual desires of the men in it. If you can point out the existing mixed gender non sexual audience that ManServants has started pushing their product on, I might consider it comparable.
    - etherael 12y ago
      Avions was a marketing promotion for uber lyon where people could sign up for a free 20 minute ride with one of the models. I don't know if I see how that is "pushing" the service on the unwilling, but I acknowledge its not the same as having specifically gone to a single outlet vendor for a specific kind of service. More like offering to have your photo taken for free with a cosplaying booth attendant at a convention for a non sexual product or using sex for advertising (terribly uncommon right?)
      - jacalata 12y ago
        Are you making that comparison in actual ignorance of people objecting to booth babes, or in a deliberate attempt to invoke their objections?
        etherael 12y ago
        It's a deliberate attempt to force people into consistency. If you object to sex being used for marketing of unrelated products that should always be true. Whether that's uber with avions, car or game companies with booth babes, or the "just squeezed" juice ads with continuously flexing male glutes or voodoo stocking etc etc etc.
        12y ago

jacalata 12y ago

Because manservants is just another instance of an actual escort service where the audience is "people who want an escort service", and the avions de chasse is the insertion of an escort service into an otherwise everyday service that has an audience of people who (i suspect) mostly aren't interested in an escort service. Its similar to how a billboard that is OK in the red light district won't be acceptable in the main street or the suburbs.

etherael 12y ago
Manservants is explicitly not an escort service (http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/07/the-manservants-service-is-not-for-sex-but-it-should-be/375355/ http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/07/the-manservants-service-...) (http://manservants.co/become-a-manservant.html http://manservants.co/become-a-manservant.html), though. In both instances it's simply trading on the sexual market value of men or women (just because it's not sex doesn't mean the sexual market value of the person in question isn't relevant, see booth babes, ad et al). If you consider this to be misogynistic or misandrist in either instance, it ought to be in both.
- jacalata 12y ago
  Sure, I forgot the non-escort bit - although as you say, it is definitely about sexual attraction. However the defining point I made was that ManServants is explicitly joining that market of sexual market value, but Uber is adding that service to their existing commodity service which did not express interest in it. I consider it unnecessarily sexual to do the latter, but not the former.I consider it misogynist because they have looked at a large mixed gender audience and decided to cater to the sexual desires of the men in it. If you can point out the existing mixed gender non sexual audience that ManServants has started pushing their product on, I might consider it comparable.
  - etherael 12y ago
    Avions was a marketing promotion for uber lyon where people could sign up for a free 20 minute ride with one of the models. I don't know if I see how that is "pushing" the service on the unwilling, but I acknowledge its not the same as having specifically gone to a single outlet vendor for a specific kind of service. More like offering to have your photo taken for free with a cosplaying booth attendant at a convention for a non sexual product or using sex for advertising (terribly uncommon right?)
    - jacalata 12y ago
      Are you making that comparison in actual ignorance of people objecting to booth babes, or in a deliberate attempt to invoke their objections?
      - etherael 12y ago
        It's a deliberate attempt to force people into consistency. If you object to sex being used for marketing of unrelated products that should always be true. Whether that's uber with avions, car or game companies with booth babes, or the "just squeezed" juice ads with continuously flexing male glutes or voodoo stocking etc etc etc.
        12y ago