6 ms·

How is misogyny relevant to what he said or what is being discussed here?

by etherael 12y ago

famousactress 12y ago
Seriously?
- etherael 12y ago
  Seriously. He definitely didn't say anything about it in the actual linked video or story, so I'm assuming you're referring to some other event that isn't covered here, and thus asking you what that actually is. Or on the off chance I just missed the flashing example of misogyny at the end of the linked article, curious for a clarification on what exactly that is.
  - famousactress 12y ago
    First, there was a "flashing example" in the middle of the article: "The company has been criticized for the treatment of its drivers, its combative tactics against competitors, and a sexist promo that offered free twenty-minute rides with attractive women." Also apologies.. It was definitely unfair of me to throw a "Seriously?" on this without context, but my commentary on this issue wasn't limited to what I read in this article. I've been following the story today. This guardian editorial covers and links to plenty of other impressions that line up well with my thinking: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/18/uber-woman-problem http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/18/uber-wo... I'm just short-tempered on being asked for evidence of sexism lately because it's fucking sad how readily available it tends to be.
    - etherael 12y ago
      Got it, I totally missed the link to the avions de chasse thing in the middle of the article and I can see how some people might think that is misogynistic. Thanks for the explanation.
- 001sky 12y ago
  Amorality and lack of proportion aren't really gendered concepts, tho.
zaroth 12y ago
This particular incident involves Kalanick's targeting of PandoDaily Editor-in-Chief Sarah Lacy. Sarah shined the light on various Uber failings of late. I personally wouldn't speculate how Kalanick's rant might have changed if Sarah were male, but it has become part of the story.
- chimeracoder 12y ago
  > Sarah shined the light on various Uber failings of late It's also relevant that she shone the light on various Uber failings, including several instances of misogyny (statements made by the Uber CEO, ads that sexualized women, etc.[0]). It's not just that Lacy is a woman, though that's certainly part of it. It's relevant because this is how Uber chose to respond specifically to a woman complaining that they are misogynistic, not just to a reporter of unspecified gender accusing Uber of generally underhanded business practices. [0] http://pando.com/2014/10/22/the-horrific-trickle-down-of-asshole-culture-at-a-company-like-uber/ http://pando.com/2014/10/22/the-horrific-trickle-down-of-ass...
meowface 12y ago
Uber's executives are known for making some sexist remarks and just generally being douches. I don't think it's fair to say that Silicon Valley has a misogyny problem, but Uber's hilariously stereotypical "frat boy" culture certainly seems to.
- famousactress 12y ago
  > I don't think it's fair to say that Silicon Valley has a misogyny problem Okay, let's flip it then. What's the canary? What are signs that an industry/organization/culture has a misogyny problem? I'd honestly love to see someone posit a reasonable litmus test that the Valley(slash-our-industry) doesn't qualify for.
  - etherael 12y ago
    Let's flip it again; what are signs that various female dominated occupations have a misandry problem in the same fashion? The thing we were just discussing with avions de chasses, why is that intrinsically misogynistic while the similarly themed ManServant startup is not intrinsically misandrist? Why are the attacks on the former a blaring cacophony and the attacks on the latter practically non-existent? I don't think it's reasonable to actually claim that something so broad can actually exist unless it's utterly global. It's individuals that make choices on their acceptable behaviours, not the industries in which they are employed. Some individuals are misogynistic or misandrist, and they might be drawn to industries where their own gender is dominant, but using that as a petard to attack those industries in entirety and everyone involved within them strikes me as missing the problem entirely.
    - jacalata 12y ago
      Because manservants is just another instance of an actual escort service where the audience is "people who want an escort service", and the avions de chasse is the insertion of an escort service into an otherwise everyday service that has an audience of people who (i suspect) mostly aren't interested in an escort service. Its similar to how a billboard that is OK in the red light district won't be acceptable in the main street or the suburbs.

How is misogyny relevant to what he said or what is being discussed here?

famousactress 12y ago

Seriously?

etherael 12y ago
Seriously. He definitely didn't say anything about it in the actual linked video or story, so I'm assuming you're referring to some other event that isn't covered here, and thus asking you what that actually is. Or on the off chance I just missed the flashing example of misogyny at the end of the linked article, curious for a clarification on what exactly that is.
- famousactress 12y ago
  First, there was a "flashing example" in the middle of the article: "The company has been criticized for the treatment of its drivers, its combative tactics against competitors, and a sexist promo that offered free twenty-minute rides with attractive women." Also apologies.. It was definitely unfair of me to throw a "Seriously?" on this without context, but my commentary on this issue wasn't limited to what I read in this article. I've been following the story today. This guardian editorial covers and links to plenty of other impressions that line up well with my thinking: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/18/uber-woman-problem http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/18/uber-wo... I'm just short-tempered on being asked for evidence of sexism lately because it's fucking sad how readily available it tends to be.
  - etherael 12y ago
    Got it, I totally missed the link to the avions de chasse thing in the middle of the article and I can see how some people might think that is misogynistic. Thanks for the explanation.
001sky 12y ago
Amorality and lack of proportion aren't really gendered concepts, tho.

zaroth 12y ago

This particular incident involves Kalanick's targeting of PandoDaily Editor-in-Chief Sarah Lacy. Sarah shined the light on various Uber failings of late. I personally wouldn't speculate how Kalanick's rant might have changed if Sarah were male, but it has become part of the story.

chimeracoder 12y ago
> Sarah shined the light on various Uber failings of late It's also relevant that she shone the light on various Uber failings, including several instances of misogyny (statements made by the Uber CEO, ads that sexualized women, etc.[0]). It's not just that Lacy is a woman, though that's certainly part of it. It's relevant because this is how Uber chose to respond specifically to a woman complaining that they are misogynistic, not just to a reporter of unspecified gender accusing Uber of generally underhanded business practices. [0] http://pando.com/2014/10/22/the-horrific-trickle-down-of-asshole-culture-at-a-company-like-uber/ http://pando.com/2014/10/22/the-horrific-trickle-down-of-ass...

meowface 12y ago

Uber's executives are known for making some sexist remarks and just generally being douches. I don't think it's fair to say that Silicon Valley has a misogyny problem, but Uber's hilariously stereotypical "frat boy" culture certainly seems to.

famousactress 12y ago
> I don't think it's fair to say that Silicon Valley has a misogyny problem Okay, let's flip it then. What's the canary? What are signs that an industry/organization/culture has a misogyny problem? I'd honestly love to see someone posit a reasonable litmus test that the Valley(slash-our-industry) doesn't qualify for.
- etherael 12y ago
  Let's flip it again; what are signs that various female dominated occupations have a misandry problem in the same fashion? The thing we were just discussing with avions de chasses, why is that intrinsically misogynistic while the similarly themed ManServant startup is not intrinsically misandrist? Why are the attacks on the former a blaring cacophony and the attacks on the latter practically non-existent? I don't think it's reasonable to actually claim that something so broad can actually exist unless it's utterly global. It's individuals that make choices on their acceptable behaviours, not the industries in which they are employed. Some individuals are misogynistic or misandrist, and they might be drawn to industries where their own gender is dominant, but using that as a petard to attack those industries in entirety and everyone involved within them strikes me as missing the problem entirely.
  - jacalata 12y ago
    Because manservants is just another instance of an actual escort service where the audience is "people who want an escort service", and the avions de chasse is the insertion of an escort service into an otherwise everyday service that has an audience of people who (i suspect) mostly aren't interested in an escort service. Its similar to how a billboard that is OK in the red light district won't be acceptable in the main street or the suburbs.