5 ms·

I might not be in the majority, but I actually like the new system font Helvetica Neue. I am a huge fan of it and on a Retina Display it makes so much sense. Un

I might not be in the majority, but I actually like the new system font Helvetica Neue. I am a huge fan of it and on a Retina Display it makes so much sense. Understandably those who do not have the luxury of a Retina Display, I can understand the frustration, but having said that, I think the whole system font change thing has been blown out of proportion. Even though I like Helvetica Neue, I really dig the new San Francisco font, it is a pretty nice alternative that seems to work pretty well for those who are using a non-Retina Display. If you want to bring back Lucida Grande, this Github repository has a handy script that will do that for you (some work colleagues of mine, designers mainly did it to bring back the old font): https://github.com/schreiberstein/lucidagrandeyosemite https://github.com/schreiberstein/lucidagrandeyosemite

doomlaser 12y ago
The trend of using ultrathin fonts everywhere will be short-lived and date interfaces quickly. It's a trend inspired totally by the mere fact that high dpi displays can render them without pixelated artifacts, and not because they make sense for design or readability on a fundamental level. Thin weight type has uses in good design, but the way it's being applied ad nauseum today is a gimmick.
- cmelbye 12y ago
  iOS hasn't used ultrathin Helvetica since its early betas, and I'm not aware of anywhere substantial in Yosemite that uses ultrathin. I believe mostly everything is regular Helvetica.
- DiggityDug7 12y ago
  Modern fonts have been frequently thin before the invention of retina screens. The overuse of thin fonts might look dated in the future, but I don't agree that this trend is totally inspired by retina screens. If anything, I think Serif fonts have seen the greatest resurgence on web due to Retina screens. High DPI screens will impact our perception of all fonts, just as sans serif grew in popularity on lower dpi screens causing their perception to be more modern and technological. In general typography as a whole has become much more interesting on retina screens. So yes, fonts look better now than ever before so don't cheat by using superthin because its trendy.
  - thegeomaster 12y ago
    Sans-serif typefaces were historically perceived as more modern than their serif counterparts. The simplicity and lack of letterform "decorations" (which serifs are) suggests a character of precision and rejection of legacy and "old ways". This has been the case ever since Swiss designers started using Helvetica and related typefaces set in clear, grid-based designs with modern color choices. So the modern character of sans-serifs dates far before computers and computer displays.
- pi-err 12y ago
  The screenshots on github use the thin variant of San Francisco - the equivalent to the current Helvetica Neue would be regular San Francisco. I also suspect they use the "Display" instead of "Text" version, which makes the kerning look strange. San Francisco seems to work best at (very) small sizes, where Helvetica breaks. It proves further that Apple thinks of each screen size as a distinct UI - clearly the biggest difference with Google's approach to UI. Off topic: the 2 screen sizes for Watch show they don't want accidental developers for this platform, only fully committed ones. I do find Helvetica works better on my Mac screen than SF (I tested in Mail.app).
- jmartinpetersen 12y ago
  This reminds me of Computer Modern (the companion default font for TeX) and what is wrong with it. It's even a reasonable explanation of why it is that way - new technology.
vl 12y ago
Yosemite is clearly first version fully optimized for Retina, potentially at expense of non-retina users. Every time I unlock my MacBook Pro I think "wow, this is gorgeous" (I have another one at work not updated to Yosemite, so I see difference every day). Unlike controversial iOS 7 update, Yosemite clearly looks better than the predecessor.
- nodata 12y ago
  But very time I open my Air, I think "oh god what have they done".
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    Why? I open my MacBook and think "the menu font is badly aliased, yuck" whereas the Mac Pro at work on Mavericks is still a joy to read. And trying to work out where a file is within Xcode is still as simple as right-clicking on the titlebar of the window (like all windows within Mac OS) but on Yosemite, how the heck do I do that????? The titlebar has gone!
    - nodata 12y ago
      You've written why: the badly aliased fonts.
    - fit2rule 12y ago
      I'm on Yosemite with the latest XCode, and all I do is right click on the title bar, as you say, and it gives me the full path to the file ..
      - 72deluxe 12y ago
        Where though? The jumpbar does the same thing (sometimes - it is buggy). But where on the titlebar do I click to get the "file proxy icon" shortcut?
        fit2rule 12y ago

doomlaser 12y ago

The trend of using ultrathin fonts everywhere will be short-lived and date interfaces quickly. It's a trend inspired totally by the mere fact that high dpi displays can render them without pixelated artifacts, and not because they make sense for design or readability on a fundamental level. Thin weight type has uses in good design, but the way it's being applied ad nauseum today is a gimmick.

cmelbye 12y ago
iOS hasn't used ultrathin Helvetica since its early betas, and I'm not aware of anywhere substantial in Yosemite that uses ultrathin. I believe mostly everything is regular Helvetica.
DiggityDug7 12y ago
Modern fonts have been frequently thin before the invention of retina screens. The overuse of thin fonts might look dated in the future, but I don't agree that this trend is totally inspired by retina screens. If anything, I think Serif fonts have seen the greatest resurgence on web due to Retina screens. High DPI screens will impact our perception of all fonts, just as sans serif grew in popularity on lower dpi screens causing their perception to be more modern and technological. In general typography as a whole has become much more interesting on retina screens. So yes, fonts look better now than ever before so don't cheat by using superthin because its trendy.
- thegeomaster 12y ago
  Sans-serif typefaces were historically perceived as more modern than their serif counterparts. The simplicity and lack of letterform "decorations" (which serifs are) suggests a character of precision and rejection of legacy and "old ways". This has been the case ever since Swiss designers started using Helvetica and related typefaces set in clear, grid-based designs with modern color choices. So the modern character of sans-serifs dates far before computers and computer displays.
pi-err 12y ago
The screenshots on github use the thin variant of San Francisco - the equivalent to the current Helvetica Neue would be regular San Francisco. I also suspect they use the "Display" instead of "Text" version, which makes the kerning look strange. San Francisco seems to work best at (very) small sizes, where Helvetica breaks. It proves further that Apple thinks of each screen size as a distinct UI - clearly the biggest difference with Google's approach to UI. Off topic: the 2 screen sizes for Watch show they don't want accidental developers for this platform, only fully committed ones. I do find Helvetica works better on my Mac screen than SF (I tested in Mail.app).
jmartinpetersen 12y ago
This reminds me of Computer Modern (the companion default font for TeX) and what is wrong with it. It's even a reasonable explanation of why it is that way - new technology.

vl 12y ago

Yosemite is clearly first version fully optimized for Retina, potentially at expense of non-retina users. Every time I unlock my MacBook Pro I think "wow, this is gorgeous" (I have another one at work not updated to Yosemite, so I see difference every day). Unlike controversial iOS 7 update, Yosemite clearly looks better than the predecessor.

nodata 12y ago
But very time I open my Air, I think "oh god what have they done".
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  Why? I open my MacBook and think "the menu font is badly aliased, yuck" whereas the Mac Pro at work on Mavericks is still a joy to read. And trying to work out where a file is within Xcode is still as simple as right-clicking on the titlebar of the window (like all windows within Mac OS) but on Yosemite, how the heck do I do that????? The titlebar has gone!
  - nodata 12y ago
    You've written why: the badly aliased fonts.
  - fit2rule 12y ago
    I'm on Yosemite with the latest XCode, and all I do is right click on the title bar, as you say, and it gives me the full path to the file ..
    - 72deluxe 12y ago
      Where though? The jumpbar does the same thing (sometimes - it is buggy). But where on the titlebar do I click to get the "file proxy icon" shortcut?
      - fit2rule 12y ago