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The most recent Pulitzer Prize winner for journalism (Glenn Greenwald) says journalism is an "adversarial" process. However, adversarial is by nature a two way

The most recent Pulitzer Prize winner for journalism (Glenn Greenwald) says journalism is an "adversarial" process. However, adversarial is by nature a two way street. Journalists who go digging into the lives of people and businesses need to be prepared for adversarial response. If I'm a business owner that's being investigated by a journalist, I want to find out the who, what, where, when and why. I am entitled to investigate the people who are investigating me. journalism startups are businesses. they make money by investigating businesses like uber. Uber is entitled to investigate in return

mikeash 12y ago
Uber is not entitled to investigate by delving into private details of people, though. And just because Uber happens to hold that data doesn't mean they're entitled to grovel through it for whatever purpose they feel like. If a journalist gets into a fight with a hospital, should that hospital be entitled to use the journalists's private health records to fight back? I say, of course not. Uber is in the same position qualitatively. Of course, in the case of the hospital it's actually illegal while for Uber it's probably not, but that's just because the law on privacy is way behind the times.
TheCowboy 12y ago
To what extent are you "entitled" to "investigate" into the personal lives of journalists and public critics? If your goal is not to intimidate, what purpose does it serve and accomplish? Freedom of the press is important and is part of the Constitution. Journalists can investigate a business even if you think they shouldn't. Looking into the financial ties of journalism is game. But the industry and business of journalism is not the same as someone's personal life, their sexual preferences, children, family, etc.
- just2n 12y ago
  To what extent are you "entitled" to "investigate" into the personal lives of entrepreneurs and people building real value. If your goal is not to intimidate, attack, or slander, what purpose does it serve and accomplish? Freedom of speech and self publication is important and is part of the Constitution. Entrepreneurs can investigate shady journalists who seem to have a bias and who are crossing ethical lines even if you think they shouldn't. Looking into the financial ties of companies is game. But the industry and business is not the same as someone's personal life, their sexual preferences, children, family, etc.
  - TheCowboy 12y ago
    I have difficulty seeing how this is a quality contribution to any discussion and not trolling. You know I didn't advocate probing the personal lives of entrepreneurs, and if you honestly believe I did advocate that then the problem is you are reading something that I didn't say. If anything, saying something like "investigating the personal lives of entrepreneurs building real value" sounds more like a sound bite a bad politician or PR rep would concoct to shield a business from public scrutiny. Instances of 'entrepreneurs building real value' is also something that is fair to cover by journalists.
wpietri 12y ago
Nope. Journalism is a constitutionally protected activity that is a cornerstone of democracy. Without an informed public, democracy cannot work. Attempting to subvert that by threatening journalists is flat out wrong. If you are a business owner, sure, you can legally investigate journalists. But that is very different than threatening to leak material about them to influence press coverage. Also, your "turnabout is fair play" logic is ridiculous. Greenwald got the secrets of the NSA, but that does not mean that the NSA is entitled to steal Greenwald's secrets.
- cwkoss 12y ago
  >Greenwald got the secrets of the NSA, but that does not mean that the NSA is entitled to steal Greenwald's secrets. I'm sure the NSA disagrees!
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Greenwald got the secrets of the NSA, but that does not mean that the NSA is entitled to steal Greenwald's secrets. Isn't the underlying theme behind the secrets that Greenwald got that the NSA feels that it is entitled steal everyone's secrets, whether or not the targets have first gotten the NSA's secrets, because NSA?
  - wpietri 12y ago
    Sure. And I'm saying that's wrong.

mikeash 12y ago

Uber is not entitled to investigate by delving into private details of people, though. And just because Uber happens to hold that data doesn't mean they're entitled to grovel through it for whatever purpose they feel like. If a journalist gets into a fight with a hospital, should that hospital be entitled to use the journalists's private health records to fight back? I say, of course not. Uber is in the same position qualitatively. Of course, in the case of the hospital it's actually illegal while for Uber it's probably not, but that's just because the law on privacy is way behind the times.

TheCowboy 12y ago

To what extent are you "entitled" to "investigate" into the personal lives of journalists and public critics? If your goal is not to intimidate, what purpose does it serve and accomplish? Freedom of the press is important and is part of the Constitution. Journalists can investigate a business even if you think they shouldn't. Looking into the financial ties of journalism is game. But the industry and business of journalism is not the same as someone's personal life, their sexual preferences, children, family, etc.

just2n 12y ago
To what extent are you "entitled" to "investigate" into the personal lives of entrepreneurs and people building real value. If your goal is not to intimidate, attack, or slander, what purpose does it serve and accomplish? Freedom of speech and self publication is important and is part of the Constitution. Entrepreneurs can investigate shady journalists who seem to have a bias and who are crossing ethical lines even if you think they shouldn't. Looking into the financial ties of companies is game. But the industry and business is not the same as someone's personal life, their sexual preferences, children, family, etc.
- TheCowboy 12y ago
  I have difficulty seeing how this is a quality contribution to any discussion and not trolling. You know I didn't advocate probing the personal lives of entrepreneurs, and if you honestly believe I did advocate that then the problem is you are reading something that I didn't say. If anything, saying something like "investigating the personal lives of entrepreneurs building real value" sounds more like a sound bite a bad politician or PR rep would concoct to shield a business from public scrutiny. Instances of 'entrepreneurs building real value' is also something that is fair to cover by journalists.

wpietri 12y ago

Nope. Journalism is a constitutionally protected activity that is a cornerstone of democracy. Without an informed public, democracy cannot work. Attempting to subvert that by threatening journalists is flat out wrong. If you are a business owner, sure, you can legally investigate journalists. But that is very different than threatening to leak material about them to influence press coverage. Also, your "turnabout is fair play" logic is ridiculous. Greenwald got the secrets of the NSA, but that does not mean that the NSA is entitled to steal Greenwald's secrets.

cwkoss 12y ago
>Greenwald got the secrets of the NSA, but that does not mean that the NSA is entitled to steal Greenwald's secrets. I'm sure the NSA disagrees!
dragonwriter 12y ago
> Greenwald got the secrets of the NSA, but that does not mean that the NSA is entitled to steal Greenwald's secrets. Isn't the underlying theme behind the secrets that Greenwald got that the NSA feels that it is entitled steal everyone's secrets, whether or not the targets have first gotten the NSA's secrets, because NSA?
- wpietri 12y ago
  Sure. And I'm saying that's wrong.