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Why do all of these services insist on you giving them your mobile number? Even Telegram, which claims to be the all giving god of encryption and privacy, insis

by 13 12y ago

Why do all of these services insist on you giving them your mobile number? Even Telegram, which claims to be the all giving god of encryption and privacy, insists on having it no matter what. It's a massive barrier to entry which I'm not willing to cross, and I'm sure other people aren't either.

BuildTheRobots 12y ago
Whatsapp requires a telephone number as it uses that for your ID. Same with RedPhone. TextSecure (android) can certainly be used without registering -you just miss out on the push-via-data service.
- 13 12y ago
  > Whatsapp requires a telephone number as it uses that for your ID. I understand that. I'm questioning why they've set such an arbitrary restriction in the first place.
  - mike_hearn 12y ago
    It's not arbitrary. It simplifies things for users a lot. No usernames or passwords to remember. Many telcos link your phone number to your identity which you cannot really lose, so therefore also no chance of losing your WhatsApp account. Also, more importantly, solves the contact discovery/social network problem by letting you reuse the phones address book.
    - 13 12y ago
      You'll find that many people are very reluctant to give up that sort of information about themselves though, whether it be for privacy or because they don't like being incessantly spammed. I understand it existing as an option, maybe even a default, but to make it to the only method of authentication seems insane. Sure, many users will deem that the benefit of using the application overwhelms any negative implications, but it would be nicer if they weren't forced to make that tradeoff in the first place. I'm not against the option existing, I'm against it being the only option.
      - mike_hearn 12y ago
        >You'll find that many people are very reluctant to give up that sort of information about themselves though Erm. I suspect you don't realise that WhatsApp has over half a billion users. It's as large as the major webmail services and nearly as large as Facebook itself. Society has reached consensus on this issue very fast - phone numbers as your identity work well, and any app that wants to be accepted by the market has to work this way exclusively.
        13 12y ago
        > Erm. I suspect you don't realise that WhatsApp has over half a billion users. I'm well aware. Just because something has given up this information doesn't mean they approve of being asked, just that they evaluated that the positives outweigh the negatives. If I put out snail pellets to save my lettuces it doesn't mean I enjoy the death of any animal, it just means that I value the outcome of healthy lettuces more than living mollusks. > any app that wants to be accepted by the market has to work this way exclusively I see nothing that suggests this, outside of a successful app despite it. Maybe they'd have more users if they didn't have such an asinine policy. We don't (and probably can't) know for sure.
      - diminoten 12y ago
        If you want to talk to your friends/family, you have to give up who you are. What's your solution here? How would I be able to talk to you?
        13 12y ago
        Usernames just like every other service on the internet which doesn't use phone numbers or email addresses for authentication and identification.
      - jamespo 12y ago
        What percentage of potential WhatsApp users is "many"? I'd suggest it's more like a minimal amount, otherwise why do you think WhatsApp gave up greater market share?
curiousHacker 12y ago
My understanding of the perspective of the authorities on encryption in messaging is that it doesn't matter what you say, it matters who you say it to and when; additionally, it matters whether you're speaking cryptically or not.
pjc50 12y ago
If it's a mobile app, people are generally used to it using the mobile number. For the average nontechnical user it reduces barriers to entry as you don't have to create yet another account with username/password, and it can be used for address book import (which I agree isn't very private!)
spacefight 12y ago
Threema doesn't. https://threema.ch/en/faq/identity_expl https://threema.ch/en/faq/identity_expl
nly 12y ago
See this article on this topic: https://whispersystems.org/blog/contact-discovery/ https://whispersystems.org/blog/contact-discovery/
homakov 12y ago
As a person who doesn't even own a mobile phone at all I support you wholeheartedly. How am i supposed to use anonymous messenger giving him my real phone number!

by 13 12y ago

BuildTheRobots 12y ago

Whatsapp requires a telephone number as it uses that for your ID. Same with RedPhone. TextSecure (android) can certainly be used without registering -you just miss out on the push-via-data service.

13 12y ago
> Whatsapp requires a telephone number as it uses that for your ID. I understand that. I'm questioning why they've set such an arbitrary restriction in the first place.
- mike_hearn 12y ago
  It's not arbitrary. It simplifies things for users a lot. No usernames or passwords to remember. Many telcos link your phone number to your identity which you cannot really lose, so therefore also no chance of losing your WhatsApp account. Also, more importantly, solves the contact discovery/social network problem by letting you reuse the phones address book.
  - 13 12y ago
    You'll find that many people are very reluctant to give up that sort of information about themselves though, whether it be for privacy or because they don't like being incessantly spammed. I understand it existing as an option, maybe even a default, but to make it to the only method of authentication seems insane. Sure, many users will deem that the benefit of using the application overwhelms any negative implications, but it would be nicer if they weren't forced to make that tradeoff in the first place. I'm not against the option existing, I'm against it being the only option.
    - mike_hearn 12y ago
      >You'll find that many people are very reluctant to give up that sort of information about themselves though Erm. I suspect you don't realise that WhatsApp has over half a billion users. It's as large as the major webmail services and nearly as large as Facebook itself. Society has reached consensus on this issue very fast - phone numbers as your identity work well, and any app that wants to be accepted by the market has to work this way exclusively.
      - 13 12y ago
        > Erm. I suspect you don't realise that WhatsApp has over half a billion users. I'm well aware. Just because something has given up this information doesn't mean they approve of being asked, just that they evaluated that the positives outweigh the negatives. If I put out snail pellets to save my lettuces it doesn't mean I enjoy the death of any animal, it just means that I value the outcome of healthy lettuces more than living mollusks. > any app that wants to be accepted by the market has to work this way exclusively I see nothing that suggests this, outside of a successful app despite it. Maybe they'd have more users if they didn't have such an asinine policy. We don't (and probably can't) know for sure.
    - diminoten 12y ago
      If you want to talk to your friends/family, you have to give up who you are. What's your solution here? How would I be able to talk to you?
      - 13 12y ago
        Usernames just like every other service on the internet which doesn't use phone numbers or email addresses for authentication and identification.
    - jamespo 12y ago
      What percentage of potential WhatsApp users is "many"? I'd suggest it's more like a minimal amount, otherwise why do you think WhatsApp gave up greater market share?

curiousHacker 12y ago

My understanding of the perspective of the authorities on encryption in messaging is that it doesn't matter what you say, it matters who you say it to and when; additionally, it matters whether you're speaking cryptically or not.

pjc50 12y ago

If it's a mobile app, people are generally used to it using the mobile number. For the average nontechnical user it reduces barriers to entry as you don't have to create yet another account with username/password, and it can be used for address book import (which I agree isn't very private!)

spacefight 12y ago

Threema doesn't. https://threema.ch/en/faq/identity_expl https://threema.ch/en/faq/identity_expl

nly 12y ago

See this article on this topic: https://whispersystems.org/blog/contact-discovery/ https://whispersystems.org/blog/contact-discovery/

homakov 12y ago

As a person who doesn't even own a mobile phone at all I support you wholeheartedly. How am i supposed to use anonymous messenger giving him my real phone number!