3 ms·

>Is your claim that there is zero correlation between violence and culturally constructed notions of masculinity? No, my claim is that is phisically impossible

by ivanca 12y ago

>Is your claim that there is zero correlation between violence and culturally constructed notions of masculinity? No, my claim is that is phisically impossible to distinguish between society pressure and testosterone combined with a chemical imbalance. When I was a teenager I have had desire to end it all in the same way that many shooters did, you know why? Is not about "masculinity", is about hatred for everything that breaths, for not fitting into society and the complete lack of social skills that I supposed I was too stupid to learn or that society didn't teach me. There is a lot going on in our body when you are going through puberty, testosterone, loneliness, discomfort, confusion, extreme self-consciousness, a lot of stuff besides "masculinity". So yeah, Annita and people should STFU about things they don't start to understand.

wpietri 12y ago
As a person who was also once a teenager with testosterone, puberty, loneliness, etc, I disagree on a few points. First, I disagree that the loneliness, etc, doesn't have a lot to do with our culture's construction of masculinity. There's a lot of stuff that boys are "supposed" to be that plays into that. We're supposed to be tough, macho, and unfeeling, so we don't get much support for expressing or managing those emotions. We're supposed to "win", to be dominant, to be high status, with no help if we don't. We're not supposed to talk about the details of social interaction the way that girls do, so it's always more mysterious. We are discouraged from building social and emotional support networks. And there's a whole host more. It has taken me literally decades to start seeing how poisonous so much of that early gender programming was for me. Second, I disagree that having been through it once makes you such an authority that you get to tell everybody else to shut up. Fishes undeniably understand water. But so do chemistry professors and hydrodynamicists. There are different ways to understand something. Third, I disagree Anita and David Futurelle and I "don't start to understand". I think I understand my past as well as you understand yours. I'm sure David feels the same way about his past. Both Futurelle and I have also spent years examining the mechanisms of gender culture. And for us, Anita's point is accurate. Which is unsurprising to me, because she literally has a degree in this stuff. Her Master's thesis was on gender representations in SF&F TV. Now that doesn't mean she (or anybody) is automatically right. But she does have standing to talk.

by ivanca 12y ago

wpietri 12y ago

As a person who was also once a teenager with testosterone, puberty, loneliness, etc, I disagree on a few points. First, I disagree that the loneliness, etc, doesn't have a lot to do with our culture's construction of masculinity. There's a lot of stuff that boys are "supposed" to be that plays into that. We're supposed to be tough, macho, and unfeeling, so we don't get much support for expressing or managing those emotions. We're supposed to "win", to be dominant, to be high status, with no help if we don't. We're not supposed to talk about the details of social interaction the way that girls do, so it's always more mysterious. We are discouraged from building social and emotional support networks. And there's a whole host more. It has taken me literally decades to start seeing how poisonous so much of that early gender programming was for me. Second, I disagree that having been through it once makes you such an authority that you get to tell everybody else to shut up. Fishes undeniably understand water. But so do chemistry professors and hydrodynamicists. There are different ways to understand something. Third, I disagree Anita and David Futurelle and I "don't start to understand". I think I understand my past as well as you understand yours. I'm sure David feels the same way about his past. Both Futurelle and I have also spent years examining the mechanisms of gender culture. And for us, Anita's point is accurate. Which is unsurprising to me, because she literally has a degree in this stuff. Her Master's thesis was on gender representations in SF&F TV. Now that doesn't mean she (or anybody) is automatically right. But she does have standing to talk.