4 ms·

Which does not mean there's necessarily anything wrong with it. If it's nutritionally mundane, we should base our decision on other factors: environmental impa

by latch 12y ago

Which does not mean there's necessarily anything wrong with it. If it's nutritionally mundane, we should base our decision on other factors: environmental impact, sustainability and animal cruelty. In Australia, 400K-700 calves (< 30 days old) are sent to the slaughterhouse every year in order to sustain its milk industry.

scott_s 12y ago
I don't think it is actually nutritionally neutral, as it is calorie and protein dense. Hence, why I drink it. But I don't ascribe any magical properties to it. I do agree with your overall point, as ethical reasons where why I was a vegetarian for ten years. But going vegan was, personally, a bridge too far. My quality of life was impacted too much by removing eggs and dairy as they were my main sources of protein - and still are.
- latch 12y ago
  Depending on where I'm living, I've struggled with this too. It's difficult in some cities/countries/cultures. I've found that, in most places, it's normally possible to find eggs produced by free-range chickens (ironically, typically at the extreme of fancy super markets or really poor ones). Milk I've been off for a long time, though I confess to enjoying a pizza once every couple months or so. I can normally avoid it though. Soy/tofu/tempeh, oats, nuts, legumes and quinoa are my major sources (quinoa can be hard to find though). I imagine soy-products might be less popular in Brazil?
ahh 12y ago
...to produce delicious veal, presumably? More to the point: if we didn't drink the milk of the mothers, neither the mothers nor the calves would exist at all; we wouldn't maintain millions of head of cattle for nostalgia. I'm not at all clear that's morally superior.
- latch 12y ago
  It's 100% clear. Not having those animals live is morally superior than subjecting them to cruelty.
- delecti 12y ago
  Considering how factory farms often treat livestock, I think there's a very low moral bar we have to beat when considering not continuing the process. Also, considering that many of the current cattle breeds are largely human creations, I don't think there's the same moral imperative to continue their existence like I believe there is with "natural" species, or even with animal breeds which could survive on their own.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
    Then that's a problem with factory farms, not with raising animals in general. It's quite possible, if a bit more expensive (sometimes...) to get meat that's humanely raised.

by latch 12y ago

scott_s 12y ago

I don't think it is actually nutritionally neutral, as it is calorie and protein dense. Hence, why I drink it. But I don't ascribe any magical properties to it. I do agree with your overall point, as ethical reasons where why I was a vegetarian for ten years. But going vegan was, personally, a bridge too far. My quality of life was impacted too much by removing eggs and dairy as they were my main sources of protein - and still are.

latch 12y ago
Depending on where I'm living, I've struggled with this too. It's difficult in some cities/countries/cultures. I've found that, in most places, it's normally possible to find eggs produced by free-range chickens (ironically, typically at the extreme of fancy super markets or really poor ones). Milk I've been off for a long time, though I confess to enjoying a pizza once every couple months or so. I can normally avoid it though. Soy/tofu/tempeh, oats, nuts, legumes and quinoa are my major sources (quinoa can be hard to find though). I imagine soy-products might be less popular in Brazil?

ahh 12y ago

...to produce delicious veal, presumably? More to the point: if we didn't drink the milk of the mothers, neither the mothers nor the calves would exist at all; we wouldn't maintain millions of head of cattle for nostalgia. I'm not at all clear that's morally superior.

latch 12y ago
It's 100% clear. Not having those animals live is morally superior than subjecting them to cruelty.
delecti 12y ago
Considering how factory farms often treat livestock, I think there's a very low moral bar we have to beat when considering not continuing the process. Also, considering that many of the current cattle breeds are largely human creations, I don't think there's the same moral imperative to continue their existence like I believe there is with "natural" species, or even with animal breeds which could survive on their own.
- HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
  Then that's a problem with factory farms, not with raising animals in general. It's quite possible, if a bit more expensive (sometimes...) to get meat that's humanely raised.