4 ms·

Tell me again how property rights prevented this from happening.

by rosser 12y ago

sp332 12y ago
The industry is already regulated, and companies are ignoring the regulations. This isn't even an approximation to a free market, let alone some ideal. Adding more regulations isn't going to help if they're not enforced.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  But how are the companies ignoring the regulations here? It appears that state permits were granted to drill and use these injection wells ~25-30 years ago and that the owner/operators have been fully compliant with regulations - if anything, the failure in this case was a regulatory one, for granting permits that should not have been issued in the first place.
  - sp332 12y ago
    So, who is responsible to pay up if a resident wants restitution for the pollution in their well? The company or the state?
    - rosser 12y ago
      So far, pretty much all the cases involving pollution of people's wells by fracking have been settled (sealed, with gag orders and no admission of wrongdoing, of course!) — and those naturally only happen where the wronged party even has standing to sue.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      On the limited information available here, if the company had not been breaking the terms of the permit then I would certainly consider my dispute to be with the state.
      - anigbrowl 12y ago
        Looking at this later I see I worded it badly - I should have said 'as long as the company hasn't been breaking the terms of the permit.' I might have mistakenly given the impression that they had done so, whereas in reality I have no reason to think they did.
    - jrobn 12y ago
      Here in PA it is well known that the state and the oil & gas companies are in bed together. As far as I'm concerned, the companies drilling and developing these gas wells have been extremely exploitative, manipulative, and down right dirty. They hire landmen thugs to bully and exploit landowners into leasing their land for bottom dollar. They drill gas wells with a cocktail of chemicals that they keep secret so as to obstruct water testing. They contaminate residents wells and then have the cases gag ordered. They lobby our state government to lease state land and bypass taxes. They put contaminated water in containment ponds (not cleared for toxic waste) knowing they have active leaks and do nothing about it [1]. In every way, the marcellus and utica shale play has been more about screwing over local residents for profits then about the shill they throw up on tv about american energy independence. It's a lie. [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/06/us-usa-fracking-pennsylvania-idUSKBN0G62G220140806 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/06/us-usa-fracking-pe...]
    - refurb 12y ago
      In this case? The state. They screwed up, not the company.
      - rosser 12y ago
        I don't think that's been definitively demonstrated here.
        refurb 12y ago
        Really? The state apologized for approving an injection well when then shouldn't have. Where do you see any culpability on the part of the company?

Tell me again how property rights prevented this from happening.

by rosser 12y ago

Tell me again how property rights prevented this from happening.

sp332 12y ago

The industry is already regulated, and companies are ignoring the regulations. This isn't even an approximation to a free market, let alone some ideal. Adding more regulations isn't going to help if they're not enforced.

anigbrowl 12y ago
But how are the companies ignoring the regulations here? It appears that state permits were granted to drill and use these injection wells ~25-30 years ago and that the owner/operators have been fully compliant with regulations - if anything, the failure in this case was a regulatory one, for granting permits that should not have been issued in the first place.
- sp332 12y ago
  So, who is responsible to pay up if a resident wants restitution for the pollution in their well? The company or the state?
  - rosser 12y ago
    So far, pretty much all the cases involving pollution of people's wells by fracking have been settled (sealed, with gag orders and no admission of wrongdoing, of course!) — and those naturally only happen where the wronged party even has standing to sue.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    On the limited information available here, if the company had not been breaking the terms of the permit then I would certainly consider my dispute to be with the state.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      Looking at this later I see I worded it badly - I should have said 'as long as the company hasn't been breaking the terms of the permit.' I might have mistakenly given the impression that they had done so, whereas in reality I have no reason to think they did.
  - jrobn 12y ago
    Here in PA it is well known that the state and the oil & gas companies are in bed together. As far as I'm concerned, the companies drilling and developing these gas wells have been extremely exploitative, manipulative, and down right dirty. They hire landmen thugs to bully and exploit landowners into leasing their land for bottom dollar. They drill gas wells with a cocktail of chemicals that they keep secret so as to obstruct water testing. They contaminate residents wells and then have the cases gag ordered. They lobby our state government to lease state land and bypass taxes. They put contaminated water in containment ponds (not cleared for toxic waste) knowing they have active leaks and do nothing about it [1]. In every way, the marcellus and utica shale play has been more about screwing over local residents for profits then about the shill they throw up on tv about american energy independence. It's a lie. [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/06/us-usa-fracking-pennsylvania-idUSKBN0G62G220140806 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/06/us-usa-fracking-pe...]
  - refurb 12y ago
    In this case? The state. They screwed up, not the company.
    - rosser 12y ago
      I don't think that's been definitively demonstrated here.
      - refurb 12y ago
        Really? The state apologized for approving an injection well when then shouldn't have. Where do you see any culpability on the part of the company?