6 ms·

Is GNU Smalltalk a fully-compliant Smalltalk-80 implementation? I have tried messing with Squeak Smalltalk in the past, but the UI always puts me off.

mattyb 17y ago
According to http://smalltalk.gnu.org/faq/146 http://smalltalk.gnu.org/faq/146, it is.
omouse 17y ago
You just have to get used to it. I find Squeak to be more powerful than GNU Smalltalk because it has integrated version control and is basically the most self-aware IDE there is. The GUI may look ugly but it's usable and I thought programmers didn't care much for beauty if the functionality was there ;)
- hboon 17y ago
  Like I tell everyone who cares, if you want to start with Smalltalk and can't stand Squeak, give Dolphin a go if you are on Windows. There's a free version. (You might still want to come back to Squeak or Pharo later).
  - hboon 17y ago
    And if there is something equivalent to it on OS X, I will ditch Xcode for most tasks, and run to use Dolphin. It is that good. Ambrai Smalltalk gave me some hope. But unfortunately, it seemed to have died in beta.
draegtun 17y ago
If u don't like the Squeak UI then take a look at Pharo: http://www.pharo-project.org/home http://www.pharo-project.org/home
- randallsquared 17y ago
  Using "you" is only two extra characters, and not using them devalues anything you say, for some people.
  - rick2047 17y ago
    Why use two extra characters when you can get away with one?I know this logic does not appeal to many, but must you not judge the post by its content and not by its language?I mean you know when he is saying "u" he means "you" and language is just a tool to make you understand his ideas, and when that is accomplished why bother about the extra two characters. PS:- Funny thing is according to my above logic I wasted a whole post just to make you understand the not so great value of two extra characters
    - gloob 17y ago
      Because, first and foremost, it's aesthetically displeasing. Secondly, cutting out characters provides no gain to anyone, tangible or otherwise, unless you are just that concerned about the tenth of a second it will save you typing. Thirdly, language matters: for instance, inserting the word "fuckery" three or four times into most posts would leave them entirely understandable; that does not mean that people are obligated to support it. Similarly for 1337, which has the benefit of not being actually offensive, but rather making the speaker sound like they're six. Content is important, of course, but atmosphere matters too (at least to some people). Edit: For what it's worth, I didn't downvote the comment being discussed.
      - rick2047 17y ago
        Well I dont think its the authors job to make it always aesthetically pleasing to everybody, he just wanted to convey his ideas and he did. I am not concerned about the tenth of a second I save by not typing y and o but the one second I do spend making "u" "you" again. The kind of short hand (or SMS) language is just the part of the authors habit. Has it became just so "aesthetically displeasing" to read "u" as the word and not alphabet? As to the fuckery analogy I wanna say that it would not leave the post entirely understandable because you will have to still think if the word was actually part of the sentence or not?But I think (dont bother to deny it) that everybody who owns a mobile or had used internet would know simple things like "u" stands for "you","ur" stands for "your" and "bt" for "but". And if they dont its entirely possible to get that from context. But your fuckery example is just opposite.Nobody will "know" and will at least have contemplate as to whats the use of that word in the context. For the 1337 point I wanna say two things. First if the author sounds like six but has a good or at least competent thing to say then whats the matter?You should just except the authors view and choice, also be scared by the fact that he is competent with you by the age of 6 and he would be surely outsmarting you when he reaches your age. Secondly I too dont like such 1337 language, but only when the spellings are so obscure that the reader may never even begin to understand what the word is. But again when someone rights "u" you can easily understand that he means "you" which is not the case when someone writes 1337 $|o3/-\|< |=/-\57 3|\|0U9|-| u </-\|\| 937 /-\ |0T 0F \/\//-\7 |7 5/-\5, 7|-|3|\| U c/-\|\| F|9uR3 0u7 \/\//-\7 u |\/||553o|. I know to some people atmosphere is very important (like my college professors), but what dont understand is why these people dont understand that for some people it is not. To some people its just the content that matters the most (if you can understand it fully of course). If you expect people to respect your choice, why not first start to respect theres? Or like mahatma Gandhi once put it "You should be the change you want to see in the world". And here by change i mean respect for other people's choice. PS:- I dont really care if you are down voting me or not, I am already having a rough day at the forum and I am actually eager to see if karma can go into negative or not.Nor do I expect a standing ovation to this post but this is exactly I feel in 500 words. Edit: Now I officially Know that karma can go into negative, but I would like that people who down vote may just give me a reason as to why they did it
mahmud 17y ago
It's fully compliant without the overreaching "desktop" metaphor that's so ingrained in other Smalltalk. GNU Smalltalk has a repl and is able to load files from disk and dump images; very Lispy features that breaks rank with the GUI-nature of most other STs.
- spooneybarger 17y ago
  i like gnu smalltalk but the lack of some of the gui tools is a drawback for me.

mattyb 17y ago

According to http://smalltalk.gnu.org/faq/146 http://smalltalk.gnu.org/faq/146, it is.

omouse 17y ago

You just have to get used to it. I find Squeak to be more powerful than GNU Smalltalk because it has integrated version control and is basically the most self-aware IDE there is. The GUI may look ugly but it's usable and I thought programmers didn't care much for beauty if the functionality was there ;)

hboon 17y ago
Like I tell everyone who cares, if you want to start with Smalltalk and can't stand Squeak, give Dolphin a go if you are on Windows. There's a free version. (You might still want to come back to Squeak or Pharo later).
- hboon 17y ago
  And if there is something equivalent to it on OS X, I will ditch Xcode for most tasks, and run to use Dolphin. It is that good. Ambrai Smalltalk gave me some hope. But unfortunately, it seemed to have died in beta.

draegtun 17y ago

If u don't like the Squeak UI then take a look at Pharo: http://www.pharo-project.org/home http://www.pharo-project.org/home

randallsquared 17y ago
Using "you" is only two extra characters, and not using them devalues anything you say, for some people.
- rick2047 17y ago
  Why use two extra characters when you can get away with one?I know this logic does not appeal to many, but must you not judge the post by its content and not by its language?I mean you know when he is saying "u" he means "you" and language is just a tool to make you understand his ideas, and when that is accomplished why bother about the extra two characters. PS:- Funny thing is according to my above logic I wasted a whole post just to make you understand the not so great value of two extra characters
  - gloob 17y ago
    Because, first and foremost, it's aesthetically displeasing. Secondly, cutting out characters provides no gain to anyone, tangible or otherwise, unless you are just that concerned about the tenth of a second it will save you typing. Thirdly, language matters: for instance, inserting the word "fuckery" three or four times into most posts would leave them entirely understandable; that does not mean that people are obligated to support it. Similarly for 1337, which has the benefit of not being actually offensive, but rather making the speaker sound like they're six. Content is important, of course, but atmosphere matters too (at least to some people). Edit: For what it's worth, I didn't downvote the comment being discussed.
    - rick2047 17y ago
      Well I dont think its the authors job to make it always aesthetically pleasing to everybody, he just wanted to convey his ideas and he did. I am not concerned about the tenth of a second I save by not typing y and o but the one second I do spend making "u" "you" again. The kind of short hand (or SMS) language is just the part of the authors habit. Has it became just so "aesthetically displeasing" to read "u" as the word and not alphabet? As to the fuckery analogy I wanna say that it would not leave the post entirely understandable because you will have to still think if the word was actually part of the sentence or not?But I think (dont bother to deny it) that everybody who owns a mobile or had used internet would know simple things like "u" stands for "you","ur" stands for "your" and "bt" for "but". And if they dont its entirely possible to get that from context. But your fuckery example is just opposite.Nobody will "know" and will at least have contemplate as to whats the use of that word in the context. For the 1337 point I wanna say two things. First if the author sounds like six but has a good or at least competent thing to say then whats the matter?You should just except the authors view and choice, also be scared by the fact that he is competent with you by the age of 6 and he would be surely outsmarting you when he reaches your age. Secondly I too dont like such 1337 language, but only when the spellings are so obscure that the reader may never even begin to understand what the word is. But again when someone rights "u" you can easily understand that he means "you" which is not the case when someone writes 1337 $|o3/-\|< |=/-\57 3|\|0U9|-| u </-\|\| 937 /-\ |0T 0F \/\//-\7 |7 5/-\5, 7|-|3|\| U c/-\|\| F|9uR3 0u7 \/\//-\7 u |\/||553o|. I know to some people atmosphere is very important (like my college professors), but what dont understand is why these people dont understand that for some people it is not. To some people its just the content that matters the most (if you can understand it fully of course). If you expect people to respect your choice, why not first start to respect theres? Or like mahatma Gandhi once put it "You should be the change you want to see in the world". And here by change i mean respect for other people's choice. PS:- I dont really care if you are down voting me or not, I am already having a rough day at the forum and I am actually eager to see if karma can go into negative or not.Nor do I expect a standing ovation to this post but this is exactly I feel in 500 words. Edit: Now I officially Know that karma can go into negative, but I would like that people who down vote may just give me a reason as to why they did it

mahmud 17y ago

It's fully compliant without the overreaching "desktop" metaphor that's so ingrained in other Smalltalk. GNU Smalltalk has a repl and is able to load files from disk and dump images; very Lispy features that breaks rank with the GUI-nature of most other STs.

spooneybarger 17y ago
i like gnu smalltalk but the lack of some of the gui tools is a drawback for me.