4 ms·

Has anyone got some background information on this?

by ZenoArrow 12y ago

toyg 12y ago
Systemd has always been very controversial.
- bigiain 12y ago
  From tfheen on the Slashdot thread: "I don't agree with them (at least not fully), but my resignation from the maintainer team is not about people being skeptical, it's about personal attacks, it's about death wishes from project members and it's about people escalating conflicts instead of trying to resolve them." Seriously, people sending _death wishes_ to developer or maintainers of software who's decisions/directions they disagree with? They need to be publicly named so I can easily find that out when I Google them when their CV hits my desk. That's _so_ not OK. I would refuse to have those people on any team of mine - no matter how excellent your grades, no matter how lofty your achievements, your CV just gets thrown out, you won't even get a call back explaining why.
  - _Lemon_ 12y ago
    I agree but what happens if someone posts under someone else's name? It would probably be best not to perpetuate these things and to just end the vitriol now.
    - tfheen 12y ago
      Given they're active on the list in question and while the content crossed a line, the style was not out of character, nor was it later claimed to have been posted by somebody else, so I think we can rule this out.
      - chroma 12y ago
        Why not publish the offending emails? As it is, those who threatened you face no repercussions. Their tactic worked, and they have every incentive to visit abuse upon others in the future. Edit: Thank you. I was under the impression that the emails were addressed specifically to you, not a mailing list.
        tfheen 12y ago
        They're on debian-devel, and I'm sure the hivemind fill find them quickly enough, but sure: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/05/msg00585.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/05/msg00585.html (and yes, they got pushback, but it took approximately that much until people said WTF).
        tedunangst 12y ago
        Thorsten has always been a jerk. I don't think systemd is a new trigger, but it's interesting to see him show up (though I'm not surprised). He used to haunt the OpenBSD lists a decade ago, but was basically sent packing after all his "contributions" were rejected.
  - jqm 12y ago
    While I respect your decision to throw out the CVs of people engaging in hatred and death wishes (of course... I think most people would do this), I'm not sure many of these people will be applying to your Australian web strategy company. In other words, your post came off as a bit self important.
    - bigiain 12y ago
      Fair call. I certainly didn't intend to imply I'm head of HR aT Google or SpaceX, but at he same time it wasn't intended to be about me (and turning it around that way the judging it based on 3 a year out of date HN bio or LinkedIn profile still doesn't make it about me). How do you suggest that "we" (these people's peers) should deal with behavior like hat?
- johansch 12y ago
  http://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd--harbinger-of-the-linux-apocalypse.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd...
- tfheen 12y ago
  That is not the point here, neither in my resignation or my blog post. Something being controversial does not mean it's ok to be a dick to the people pushing for it, which is the core of what I'm trying to say.
JoshTriplett 12y ago
The announcement of the latest Technical Committee decision: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00010.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00... Some background: https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/msg00069.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/msg00069.html [Disclaimer: I helped with the evaluation and drafting of this particular TC decision, to try to mitigate any potential fallout, and make sure that this particular decision didn't cause any harm; in particular, I wrote clause 3 and 4 of the decision, and suggested what turned into clause 6. However, I think Anthony Towns has it right: "The tech ctte could've addressed this issue by providing policy guidance or by just offering advice, and assuming that the systemd maintainers would act on the advice or policy in good faith. Choosing to override the systemd maintainers was far from the most friendly available option."] This mail is useful as well: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00754.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00754.html "This is what many still (retorically) wonder about: we the systemd maintainers did not reject that change, so it is not clear (or, it is) why the TC had to be involved." It isn't about this one decision, either; as with the previous TC decision, this is more the last straw. Maintaining systemd is a difficult enough task without heaps of people piling on.
lordlarm 12y ago
More in his blog: http://err.no/personal/blog/tech/Debian/2014-11-16-23-55_resigning_from_pkg-systemd http://err.no/personal/blog/tech/Debian/2014-11-16-23-55_res...

Has anyone got some background information on this?

toyg 12y ago

Systemd has always been very controversial.

bigiain 12y ago
From tfheen on the Slashdot thread: "I don't agree with them (at least not fully), but my resignation from the maintainer team is not about people being skeptical, it's about personal attacks, it's about death wishes from project members and it's about people escalating conflicts instead of trying to resolve them." Seriously, people sending _death wishes_ to developer or maintainers of software who's decisions/directions they disagree with? They need to be publicly named so I can easily find that out when I Google them when their CV hits my desk. That's _so_ not OK. I would refuse to have those people on any team of mine - no matter how excellent your grades, no matter how lofty your achievements, your CV just gets thrown out, you won't even get a call back explaining why.
- _Lemon_ 12y ago
  I agree but what happens if someone posts under someone else's name? It would probably be best not to perpetuate these things and to just end the vitriol now.
  - tfheen 12y ago
    Given they're active on the list in question and while the content crossed a line, the style was not out of character, nor was it later claimed to have been posted by somebody else, so I think we can rule this out.
    - chroma 12y ago
      Why not publish the offending emails? As it is, those who threatened you face no repercussions. Their tactic worked, and they have every incentive to visit abuse upon others in the future. Edit: Thank you. I was under the impression that the emails were addressed specifically to you, not a mailing list.
      - tfheen 12y ago
        They're on debian-devel, and I'm sure the hivemind fill find them quickly enough, but sure: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/05/msg00585.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/05/msg00585.html (and yes, they got pushback, but it took approximately that much until people said WTF).
        tedunangst 12y ago
        Thorsten has always been a jerk. I don't think systemd is a new trigger, but it's interesting to see him show up (though I'm not surprised). He used to haunt the OpenBSD lists a decade ago, but was basically sent packing after all his "contributions" were rejected.
- jqm 12y ago
  While I respect your decision to throw out the CVs of people engaging in hatred and death wishes (of course... I think most people would do this), I'm not sure many of these people will be applying to your Australian web strategy company. In other words, your post came off as a bit self important.
  - bigiain 12y ago
    Fair call. I certainly didn't intend to imply I'm head of HR aT Google or SpaceX, but at he same time it wasn't intended to be about me (and turning it around that way the judging it based on 3 a year out of date HN bio or LinkedIn profile still doesn't make it about me). How do you suggest that "we" (these people's peers) should deal with behavior like hat?
johansch 12y ago
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd--harbinger-of-the-linux-apocalypse.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd...
tfheen 12y ago
That is not the point here, neither in my resignation or my blog post. Something being controversial does not mean it's ok to be a dick to the people pushing for it, which is the core of what I'm trying to say.

JoshTriplett 12y ago

The announcement of the latest Technical Committee decision: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00010.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00... Some background: https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/msg00069.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/msg00069.html [Disclaimer: I helped with the evaluation and drafting of this particular TC decision, to try to mitigate any potential fallout, and make sure that this particular decision didn't cause any harm; in particular, I wrote clause 3 and 4 of the decision, and suggested what turned into clause 6. However, I think Anthony Towns has it right: "The tech ctte could've addressed this issue by providing policy guidance or by just offering advice, and assuming that the systemd maintainers would act on the advice or policy in good faith. Choosing to override the systemd maintainers was far from the most friendly available option."] This mail is useful as well: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00754.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00754.html "This is what many still (retorically) wonder about: we the systemd maintainers did not reject that change, so it is not clear (or, it is) why the TC had to be involved." It isn't about this one decision, either; as with the previous TC decision, this is more the last straw. Maintaining systemd is a difficult enough task without heaps of people piling on.

lordlarm 12y ago

More in his blog: http://err.no/personal/blog/tech/Debian/2014-11-16-23-55_resigning_from_pkg-systemd http://err.no/personal/blog/tech/Debian/2014-11-16-23-55_res...