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Once again the meme that China was hacking to find dissidents was a lie for propaganda purposes, and the actual motivation was to see who the USG had wiretap or

Once again the meme that China was hacking to find dissidents was a lie for propaganda purposes, and the actual motivation was to see who the USG had wiretap orders on, to see if any of China's own spies had been burned. But, it makes China sound evil when you tell the public that they are doing it for human rights reasons. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/chinese-hackers-who-breached-google-gained-access-to-sensitive-data-us-officials-say/2013/05/20/51330428-be34-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/chines...

ArtDev 12y ago
If you know anything about China activities in Tibet, you would know that China IS evil. Its important to remember that unlike China or Russia, the US government is tame in comparison with how it handles dissidents. Guantanamo is bad but nothing in comparison to the political prison camps across China. No one wants to live in a county where something as simple as an online comment will make you disappear in the middle of the night. This is what we want to keep America from becoming. There is a list of over one million "missing" Tibetans. A common crime: possessing a picture of the Dalai Lama.
- yskchu 12y ago
  <quote> There is a list of over one million "missing" Tibetans. </quote> I'm going to call BS on this one. The population of Tibet is only 2.91 million. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region#Demogra... Are you saying they "disappeared" 1/3 of the population?
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    The Axis powers of World War 2 killed at least 7 million outside of "legal" warfare. Ukraine, Anatolia, Congo, Cambodia, and Nigeria have all experienced genocides of 1 million people or larger. Do not make the mistake of thinking that anything is too monstrous for a national government, particularly one that cannot be held to account by anyone except a strong alliance of other national governments: China, Russia, or the U.S. The population of "Tibet" includes Han occupiers. It is entirely possible that someone has "vanished" more than 1/3 of Zang (Tibetan) in that region. But some Zang also live outside the nominal political borders of Tibet. And due to forced displacement, and the manner in which Beijing handles China's ethnic minorities, like Zang and Uighurs, or even Han peasants, it is also possible that the "missing" people are still alive, but shoved into a bureaucratic black hole that prevents them from communicating with anyone connected to the rest of the world.
  - snowwrestler 12y ago
    I believe the claimed list of 1+ million missing Tibetans is since 1950 (64 years of time to date).
- Htsthbjig 12y ago
  "If you know anything about China activities in Tibet, you would know that China IS evil." Following that rule, the US is evil too. How many native Americans they exterminated? Millions in California alone. How many innocent people died in Iraq after US invasion for taking their oil?. How many people have died in Libya from the war US promoted? Of course, most of Americans(that don't travel around the world, know languages and understand other countries) believe the propaganda that says that the invasion of Iraq(or any other country) was to promote freedom and democracy and lollipops. So do the Chinese, they have their own propaganda machine, like the US. But war is a racket, it has always been: http://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Profit-Motive-Warfare/dp/1434407004 http://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Profit-Motive-Warfare/dp/14... Now, for example, most Americans have a strong opinion against Putin, without having traveled to Russia or the Ukraine because what they know about it is given by a channeled(and powerful controlled) media they believe to be truthful. Having lived both in the US and China,and traveling there often I perceive the US had freedom in the past but is decreasing fast with the 9/11 NSA abuses and whatnot, while China lacked freedom but increases it day after day. Americans believe using words alone is enough, like saying "we are the land of the free", but in practice they are giving away the freedoms they have in exchange for other perceived qualities, like "security".
lern_too_spel 12y ago
Your assertion comes from a statement that Microsoft later retracted (according to your article) and said was from an incident unrelated to Aurora. Most likely, it was some script-kiddie checking that he wasn't being monitored, and that Microsoft employee mixed it up with the Chinese attack. It says that Google found that the Chinese had also gained access to surveillance data in their systems after they discovered that the Chinese had gotten access to dissidents' accounts. The Chinese weren't solely doing counterintelligence.
- xnull2guest 12y ago
  I would believe this, but where does it say that Google found the Chinese gained access to surveillance data in their systems after they discovered the Chinese had gotten access to dissidents' accounts? > Your assertion comes from a statement that Microsoft later retracted (according to your article) and said was from an incident unrelated to Aurora. Definitely. Microsoft was hacked to get a list of surveillance targets, but not as part of Operation Aurora. > Most likely, it was some script-kiddie checking that he wasn't being monitored, and that Microsoft employee mixed it up with the Chinese attack. A script kiddie? Unlikely. I mean... man, I hope our surveillance services can't be owned by script-kiddies... Another example of a state sponsored attack on Microsoft surveillance requests is SEA who hacked into Microsoft to gain access to the team that does data intercept requests for the FBI. Other readers, please be aware that lern_too_spel and I have a bit of a feud (I guess?). Please find our latest discussion here for context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8614037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8614037

ArtDev 12y ago

If you know anything about China activities in Tibet, you would know that China IS evil. Its important to remember that unlike China or Russia, the US government is tame in comparison with how it handles dissidents. Guantanamo is bad but nothing in comparison to the political prison camps across China. No one wants to live in a county where something as simple as an online comment will make you disappear in the middle of the night. This is what we want to keep America from becoming. There is a list of over one million "missing" Tibetans. A common crime: possessing a picture of the Dalai Lama.

yskchu 12y ago
<quote> There is a list of over one million "missing" Tibetans. </quote> I'm going to call BS on this one. The population of Tibet is only 2.91 million. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region#Demogra... Are you saying they "disappeared" 1/3 of the population?
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  The Axis powers of World War 2 killed at least 7 million outside of "legal" warfare. Ukraine, Anatolia, Congo, Cambodia, and Nigeria have all experienced genocides of 1 million people or larger. Do not make the mistake of thinking that anything is too monstrous for a national government, particularly one that cannot be held to account by anyone except a strong alliance of other national governments: China, Russia, or the U.S. The population of "Tibet" includes Han occupiers. It is entirely possible that someone has "vanished" more than 1/3 of Zang (Tibetan) in that region. But some Zang also live outside the nominal political borders of Tibet. And due to forced displacement, and the manner in which Beijing handles China's ethnic minorities, like Zang and Uighurs, or even Han peasants, it is also possible that the "missing" people are still alive, but shoved into a bureaucratic black hole that prevents them from communicating with anyone connected to the rest of the world.
- snowwrestler 12y ago
  I believe the claimed list of 1+ million missing Tibetans is since 1950 (64 years of time to date).
Htsthbjig 12y ago
"If you know anything about China activities in Tibet, you would know that China IS evil." Following that rule, the US is evil too. How many native Americans they exterminated? Millions in California alone. How many innocent people died in Iraq after US invasion for taking their oil?. How many people have died in Libya from the war US promoted? Of course, most of Americans(that don't travel around the world, know languages and understand other countries) believe the propaganda that says that the invasion of Iraq(or any other country) was to promote freedom and democracy and lollipops. So do the Chinese, they have their own propaganda machine, like the US. But war is a racket, it has always been: http://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Profit-Motive-Warfare/dp/1434407004 http://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Profit-Motive-Warfare/dp/14... Now, for example, most Americans have a strong opinion against Putin, without having traveled to Russia or the Ukraine because what they know about it is given by a channeled(and powerful controlled) media they believe to be truthful. Having lived both in the US and China,and traveling there often I perceive the US had freedom in the past but is decreasing fast with the 9/11 NSA abuses and whatnot, while China lacked freedom but increases it day after day. Americans believe using words alone is enough, like saying "we are the land of the free", but in practice they are giving away the freedoms they have in exchange for other perceived qualities, like "security".

lern_too_spel 12y ago

Your assertion comes from a statement that Microsoft later retracted (according to your article) and said was from an incident unrelated to Aurora. Most likely, it was some script-kiddie checking that he wasn't being monitored, and that Microsoft employee mixed it up with the Chinese attack. It says that Google found that the Chinese had also gained access to surveillance data in their systems after they discovered that the Chinese had gotten access to dissidents' accounts. The Chinese weren't solely doing counterintelligence.

xnull2guest 12y ago
I would believe this, but where does it say that Google found the Chinese gained access to surveillance data in their systems after they discovered the Chinese had gotten access to dissidents' accounts? > Your assertion comes from a statement that Microsoft later retracted (according to your article) and said was from an incident unrelated to Aurora. Definitely. Microsoft was hacked to get a list of surveillance targets, but not as part of Operation Aurora. > Most likely, it was some script-kiddie checking that he wasn't being monitored, and that Microsoft employee mixed it up with the Chinese attack. A script kiddie? Unlikely. I mean... man, I hope our surveillance services can't be owned by script-kiddies... Another example of a state sponsored attack on Microsoft surveillance requests is SEA who hacked into Microsoft to gain access to the team that does data intercept requests for the FBI. Other readers, please be aware that lern_too_spel and I have a bit of a feud (I guess?). Please find our latest discussion here for context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8614037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8614037