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"Everyone in the same grade took the same classes" This is the key difference which was specifically ignored in the article by focusing solely on reading and m

by VLM 12y ago

"Everyone in the same grade took the same classes" This is the key difference which was specifically ignored in the article by focusing solely on reading and math scores. A traditional American school started specialization in middle school and the level of specialization becomes rather extreme by high school. So in elementary school there is no specialized gear larger than a tupperware container other than the school library, gym, maybe an art and music room (although there's a push to get rid of the last two in favor of math and reading). In middle school you'll see dedicated rooms. There will be a "shop" room and a "home ec" room and a couple others. In high school we had one room for auto shop, one room for CAD drafting (that was an interesting class), one room for ceramics arts, one room for chemistry, etc. Generally speaking there has been a trend to get rid of all hands on activity and get rid of pretending any educational track other than college to cubicle exists. So close the metal shop and shove all the kids into college prep, close the ceramic arts room and shove the kids into a 4th year of english lit, close the CAD drafting lab and shove the kids into a required 3rd year of math, that sort of thing. (edited to add, and its been a miserable failure at increasing math and reading scores, but its done a truly excellent job of making sure none of the kids know how to change the oil in their car or which end of the soldering iron gets hot) IF and only if you get rid of all the specialized classes, such that all kids attend the same college prep classes, THEN it'll be realistic to go all K-12 in the one room school house again.

rdtsc 12y ago
Just to give you another perspective. Boys had shop class and girls had home ec. Yes I know sexist. We had art classes. Lots of literature. 1 foreign language, then 2 foreign languages starting in 6th grade. There were also some extracuriluar activies. Some guys wanted to do extra acivities in the shop and build things and the teacher let them and supervised them. There were not many. Some activities were not associated with school but served the city -- swimming. You took public transportation to that by yourself if you wanted. Also there were not "college prep" classes. There were classes designed to teach a wide area of emphasis. Math, physics, biology, chemistry, literature, geography, (even strange things like drafting), foreign langauges. The idea that someone in the middle school is going to specialize to do pottery for the rest of their lives and only take minimum math classes is a bit silly I think.
- VLM 12y ago
  I think we have a mismatch of "zoom" levels where you appear to be arguing both "Everyone in the same grade took the same classes" and the opposite of that scheduling. I suppose from an extremely high level perspective we also all took some of the same classes, sort of. I think drivers ed was universal as was gym/phy ed, and health class (which was a dumbed down human oriented biology/anatomy class, rather than having anything direct to do with health) Based on further detail our experiences were not all that different. "college prep" this was more of a tag on the depth of study in the classroom than a specific class. They generally separated and tracked and labeled the classes by "intensive" "college prep" "unlabeled" and "basic" from top to bottom. I was in "intensive" math so in my last year I took college calculus. I was merely in "college prep" english lit with the primary effect that I got better letter grades than my friends in "intensive" english lit, also my reading assignments were shorter as were my essay requirements. It was explained you'd never be able to do college level work unless you took the "college prep" level classes. It was explained to us that for the rest of our lives our industrial corporate employers would care very deeply about who took Int English Lit 11 vs College Prep English Lit 11, not to mention how much they'd care about our middle school grades (LOL). There is something of a fad in the usa to mainstream absolutely all students into the "college prep" classes, to maximize revenue. I suppose it minimizes expense, at least as long as you can pretend there's no difference between students. Conformity at all costs! As I think back, pretty much everyone in the "intensive math" class was together from 7th grade until 12th grade, plus or minus people moving, etc. Thru attrition we were down to about 15 kids by senior year.
  - rdtsc 12y ago
    > I think we have a mismatch of "zoom" levels where you appear to be arguing both "Everyone in the same grade took the same classes" and the opposite of that scheduling. I Sorry that does seem confusing. Let me try to clear it up. The point was that the main thing students should be doing -- getting an education, whether it prepares them for college or not was at the top of the list. Students being able to pick classes and specialize was not a top priority. Then another point was that _optionally_ many had opportunity to further their interests by joining an external "club" or organizing one around the school. But these were optional and everyone did it if they wanted it. I didn't for example, my friends beleonged to a airplane modeling club and so on. My argument was that the choice and ability to specialize starting in middle school as well as having to switch schools teachers, having different classmates every class is stressful enough and a uniform set of classes everyone takes is better. If anything just because it reduces the emotional stress of having to fit in different cliques or getting used to new schools and so on. The reason I make personal annectodes is that I participated in both systems and can compare the two, based on how it felt for me. Not to say I am extolling or saying all things were better and one should just copy that system of education -- there was lots of corruption and cheating or instance. But something I believe were better.

by VLM 12y ago

rdtsc 12y ago

Just to give you another perspective. Boys had shop class and girls had home ec. Yes I know sexist. We had art classes. Lots of literature. 1 foreign language, then 2 foreign languages starting in 6th grade. There were also some extracuriluar activies. Some guys wanted to do extra acivities in the shop and build things and the teacher let them and supervised them. There were not many. Some activities were not associated with school but served the city -- swimming. You took public transportation to that by yourself if you wanted. Also there were not "college prep" classes. There were classes designed to teach a wide area of emphasis. Math, physics, biology, chemistry, literature, geography, (even strange things like drafting), foreign langauges. The idea that someone in the middle school is going to specialize to do pottery for the rest of their lives and only take minimum math classes is a bit silly I think.

VLM 12y ago
I think we have a mismatch of "zoom" levels where you appear to be arguing both "Everyone in the same grade took the same classes" and the opposite of that scheduling. I suppose from an extremely high level perspective we also all took some of the same classes, sort of. I think drivers ed was universal as was gym/phy ed, and health class (which was a dumbed down human oriented biology/anatomy class, rather than having anything direct to do with health) Based on further detail our experiences were not all that different. "college prep" this was more of a tag on the depth of study in the classroom than a specific class. They generally separated and tracked and labeled the classes by "intensive" "college prep" "unlabeled" and "basic" from top to bottom. I was in "intensive" math so in my last year I took college calculus. I was merely in "college prep" english lit with the primary effect that I got better letter grades than my friends in "intensive" english lit, also my reading assignments were shorter as were my essay requirements. It was explained you'd never be able to do college level work unless you took the "college prep" level classes. It was explained to us that for the rest of our lives our industrial corporate employers would care very deeply about who took Int English Lit 11 vs College Prep English Lit 11, not to mention how much they'd care about our middle school grades (LOL). There is something of a fad in the usa to mainstream absolutely all students into the "college prep" classes, to maximize revenue. I suppose it minimizes expense, at least as long as you can pretend there's no difference between students. Conformity at all costs! As I think back, pretty much everyone in the "intensive math" class was together from 7th grade until 12th grade, plus or minus people moving, etc. Thru attrition we were down to about 15 kids by senior year.
- rdtsc 12y ago
  > I think we have a mismatch of "zoom" levels where you appear to be arguing both "Everyone in the same grade took the same classes" and the opposite of that scheduling. I Sorry that does seem confusing. Let me try to clear it up. The point was that the main thing students should be doing -- getting an education, whether it prepares them for college or not was at the top of the list. Students being able to pick classes and specialize was not a top priority. Then another point was that _optionally_ many had opportunity to further their interests by joining an external "club" or organizing one around the school. But these were optional and everyone did it if they wanted it. I didn't for example, my friends beleonged to a airplane modeling club and so on. My argument was that the choice and ability to specialize starting in middle school as well as having to switch schools teachers, having different classmates every class is stressful enough and a uniform set of classes everyone takes is better. If anything just because it reduces the emotional stress of having to fit in different cliques or getting used to new schools and so on. The reason I make personal annectodes is that I participated in both systems and can compare the two, based on how it felt for me. Not to say I am extolling or saying all things were better and one should just copy that system of education -- there was lots of corruption and cheating or instance. But something I believe were better.