4 ms·

So, let's set aside from the people vehemently disagreeing with what is basically someone reading TvTropes and applying feminist theory to it without conceptual

by srslack 12y ago

So, let's set aside from the people vehemently disagreeing with what is basically someone reading TvTropes and applying feminist theory to it without conceptualizing the terms she uses, like patriarchy. For example, is this harassment? https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-part-1-fe937f6a791e https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-pa... What exactly is the harassment, and is it widespread? A school shooting threat that is being handled by the FBI? That the FBI advises not to publicize, yet Sarkeesian did so against the recommendation of the FBI? Inviting copycat harassment to materialize. As a result, she's doing the rounds on cable TV channels. I believe the fundamental point some are making here is disingenuous, that critique and disagreement is enabling harassment to flourish. That critique and disagreement is "protecting", serves to cover, the harassers.

geographomics 12y ago
> For example, is this harassment? https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-part-1-fe937f6a791e https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-pa... Of course not. Are you being serious? It's clearly an intellectual piece addressing her work. As the author states right at the beginning: "This is not meant to attack McIntosh or Sarkeesian as people. It is meant to criticize them as researchers and academics." > What exactly is the harassment? Violent, sexual threats against her and her family (e.g. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwEefh5IcAAG_ob.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwEefh5IcAAG_ob.jpg:large), widespread dissemination of drawings depicting her being raped, DDOSing of her website - in general, socially maladjusted behaviour intended to threaten, alarm and distress. Indeed, the very same types of conduct that the author of the linked article (Randi) is describing against herself; hence the comparison.
- srslack 12y ago
  So what, if anything, is proposed that we do about anonymous trolls? Just malign all discussion and criticism of a subject or person? How will that enable us to eliminate the harassers out of a community? I was asking what exactly the harassment was because Randi provided no in-depth explanation of what exactly the harassment the people she named received, and then just blamed it on GamerGate. I'm familiar with some of the harassment of Anita, but not all. Didn't mean to belittle the claims of harassment. Blanket generalizations without proof, however, I'm fine with pointing out as dishonest. None of that harassment directed towards Anita is GamerGate. From the article: >I’m in the gaming industry now, so this was doubly relevant to my interests. I was naive enough to think that if I provided enough context about my background to counter the main tactics that the GamerGate supporters were using against Anita, Zoe, and Brianna, that they might listen.
  - geographomics 12y ago
    Sorry but I'm not really clear on what you are saying here. I mean, it seems quite straightforward and obvious to me how to identify abusive, vitriolic harassment, and how to recognise legitimate criticism of someone's viewpoints. Perhaps I am misreading your point, but you seem to be arbitrarily conflating the two?
  - Cushman 12y ago
    > So what, if anything, is proposed that we do about anonymous trolls? Just malign all discussion and criticism of a subject or person? How will that enable us to eliminate the harassers out of a community? It's like you're still reciting your lines verbatim even though we skipped a page. Did you see that the post you're responding to explicitly acknowledged that criticism isn't harassment? Harassment is harassment, and that's what we're talking about, and your concern trolling isn't toxic so much as incoherent.
- ZeroGravitas 12y ago
  "It's clearly an intellectual piece addressing her work." I'm going to guess you've not read it. It's a (long, rambling) diatribe from someone who claims an ever growing list of academic credentials when challenged on basic stats errors (e.g. misunderstanding how averages work). Oh and it's only part ! of a series. It is, in its very existance a bit frightening to me personally and it's not whipping up a hate mob with tales of my devious deceptions.
  - geographomics 12y ago
    You're right, I just skimmed it to get an overall impression of the tone, didn't spend any time appraising its worth as a critique.

by srslack 12y ago

geographomics 12y ago

> For example, is this harassment? https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-part-1-fe937f6a791e https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-pa... Of course not. Are you being serious? It's clearly an intellectual piece addressing her work. As the author states right at the beginning: "This is not meant to attack McIntosh or Sarkeesian as people. It is meant to criticize them as researchers and academics." > What exactly is the harassment? Violent, sexual threats against her and her family (e.g. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwEefh5IcAAG_ob.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwEefh5IcAAG_ob.jpg:large), widespread dissemination of drawings depicting her being raped, DDOSing of her website - in general, socially maladjusted behaviour intended to threaten, alarm and distress. Indeed, the very same types of conduct that the author of the linked article (Randi) is describing against herself; hence the comparison.

srslack 12y ago
So what, if anything, is proposed that we do about anonymous trolls? Just malign all discussion and criticism of a subject or person? How will that enable us to eliminate the harassers out of a community? I was asking what exactly the harassment was because Randi provided no in-depth explanation of what exactly the harassment the people she named received, and then just blamed it on GamerGate. I'm familiar with some of the harassment of Anita, but not all. Didn't mean to belittle the claims of harassment. Blanket generalizations without proof, however, I'm fine with pointing out as dishonest. None of that harassment directed towards Anita is GamerGate. From the article: >I’m in the gaming industry now, so this was doubly relevant to my interests. I was naive enough to think that if I provided enough context about my background to counter the main tactics that the GamerGate supporters were using against Anita, Zoe, and Brianna, that they might listen.
- geographomics 12y ago
  Sorry but I'm not really clear on what you are saying here. I mean, it seems quite straightforward and obvious to me how to identify abusive, vitriolic harassment, and how to recognise legitimate criticism of someone's viewpoints. Perhaps I am misreading your point, but you seem to be arbitrarily conflating the two?
- Cushman 12y ago
  > So what, if anything, is proposed that we do about anonymous trolls? Just malign all discussion and criticism of a subject or person? How will that enable us to eliminate the harassers out of a community? It's like you're still reciting your lines verbatim even though we skipped a page. Did you see that the post you're responding to explicitly acknowledged that criticism isn't harassment? Harassment is harassment, and that's what we're talking about, and your concern trolling isn't toxic so much as incoherent.
ZeroGravitas 12y ago
"It's clearly an intellectual piece addressing her work." I'm going to guess you've not read it. It's a (long, rambling) diatribe from someone who claims an ever growing list of academic credentials when challenged on basic stats errors (e.g. misunderstanding how averages work). Oh and it's only part ! of a series. It is, in its very existance a bit frightening to me personally and it's not whipping up a hate mob with tales of my devious deceptions.
- geographomics 12y ago
  You're right, I just skimmed it to get an overall impression of the tone, didn't spend any time appraising its worth as a critique.