4 ms·

You sound like you're probably part of the problem.

by nounaut 12y ago

aw3c2 12y ago
Uh... Please elaborate?
- jacquesm 12y ago
  > It does not seem to be about women in tech generally but seems to boil down to the work of a few socio-/psychopaths caught in a feedback loop. I think it's more than just a few and I think she's trying to broaden the scope by showing (fairly clearly) that outside of the BSD community these issues are pervasive. Hard for me to judge if that's true or not but I'll take her word for it.
  - aw3c2 12y ago
    It is my honest belief that a few dedicated abusers can easily attract and steer an army of trolls. They feed on the affirmation of comments, upvote points, whatever. The worst ones enjoy hearing about the misery of their victims. Just look at how easily online groups can turn pro/contra certain issues. A good friend of mine is biologically male, identifies as female though. He was public about that online and also due to other circumstances attracted a dedicated abuser. That abuser is so perfidious and persistent, that he (we assume) still manages to rally communities against my friend several years after it started.
    - niconii 12y ago
      A bit reluctant to bring this up since strictly speaking it's not quite on-topic, but you don't have an email address or other method of contact listed, and it's something I don't really want to ignore. I don't want to presume too much here, but my question is, if your friend identifies as female, and you're aware that she does, why do you refer to her as "he"? From a lot of your comments I get the impression that you're not very aware of feminist issues in general, but even without that knowledge, doesn't it seem disrespectful towards your friend to call her that? If she identifies as a woman, why call her something she's not? If who we are is in our minds, why should the body take precedence? I could say a lot worse, certainly, since I'm a trans woman myself. I know firsthand what it feels like to have people deny your identity day after day (really shitty, to clarify). Even so, I'm trying to at least be understanding here, rather than give a knee-jerk reaction.
lost_my_pwd 12y ago
Please don't do that; a hit and run labeling does nothing to improve the situation. If you think the grandparent poster is part of the problem, at least explain your reasoning. Without that, there's no chance of them correcting their behavior or, at the very least, seeing things from a new perspective. Not saying I do or do not agree with your assessment; just hoping for more constructive discourse and positive criticism on HN going forward.
- calibraxis 12y ago
  The world does not owe misogynists infinite amounts of patient one-on-one education. Expensive labor. The linked article is more than sufficient. Public, contemptuous dismissal is the correct response. (Or how much money are you willing to pay to fund this education you expect others to provide?)
  - xenophonf 12y ago
    The world doesn't owe anybody anything, but to write people off as hopeless is incompatible with at least my personal philosophy, which holds that no one is irredeemable. I prefer to live in a world where people, including myself, can learn from (and be forgiven for) their mistakes.
  - aw3c2 12y ago
    Are you calling me a misogynist? How on earth did you get to that incredible insult from my initial post? This kind of abrasive behaviour is exactly why discussing these issues seems impossible. This is why people like me get sick and tired of it. Please educate! Please give me objective education, I crave it!
    - paddyoloughlin 12y ago
      Your post seeks to minimise the issue (it's not about tech in general/just a few bad apples) something which is directly addressed in Part II of the original post: http://randi.io/wp/archives/91 http://randi.io/wp/archives/91 I think the reasoning basically goes that trying to minimise the problem of misogyny is a symptom of misogyny.

You sound like you're probably part of the problem.

by nounaut 12y ago

You sound like you're probably part of the problem.

aw3c2 12y ago

Uh... Please elaborate?

jacquesm 12y ago
> It does not seem to be about women in tech generally but seems to boil down to the work of a few socio-/psychopaths caught in a feedback loop. I think it's more than just a few and I think she's trying to broaden the scope by showing (fairly clearly) that outside of the BSD community these issues are pervasive. Hard for me to judge if that's true or not but I'll take her word for it.
- aw3c2 12y ago
  It is my honest belief that a few dedicated abusers can easily attract and steer an army of trolls. They feed on the affirmation of comments, upvote points, whatever. The worst ones enjoy hearing about the misery of their victims. Just look at how easily online groups can turn pro/contra certain issues. A good friend of mine is biologically male, identifies as female though. He was public about that online and also due to other circumstances attracted a dedicated abuser. That abuser is so perfidious and persistent, that he (we assume) still manages to rally communities against my friend several years after it started.
  - niconii 12y ago
    A bit reluctant to bring this up since strictly speaking it's not quite on-topic, but you don't have an email address or other method of contact listed, and it's something I don't really want to ignore. I don't want to presume too much here, but my question is, if your friend identifies as female, and you're aware that she does, why do you refer to her as "he"? From a lot of your comments I get the impression that you're not very aware of feminist issues in general, but even without that knowledge, doesn't it seem disrespectful towards your friend to call her that? If she identifies as a woman, why call her something she's not? If who we are is in our minds, why should the body take precedence? I could say a lot worse, certainly, since I'm a trans woman myself. I know firsthand what it feels like to have people deny your identity day after day (really shitty, to clarify). Even so, I'm trying to at least be understanding here, rather than give a knee-jerk reaction.

lost_my_pwd 12y ago

Please don't do that; a hit and run labeling does nothing to improve the situation. If you think the grandparent poster is part of the problem, at least explain your reasoning. Without that, there's no chance of them correcting their behavior or, at the very least, seeing things from a new perspective. Not saying I do or do not agree with your assessment; just hoping for more constructive discourse and positive criticism on HN going forward.

calibraxis 12y ago
The world does not owe misogynists infinite amounts of patient one-on-one education. Expensive labor. The linked article is more than sufficient. Public, contemptuous dismissal is the correct response. (Or how much money are you willing to pay to fund this education you expect others to provide?)
- xenophonf 12y ago
  The world doesn't owe anybody anything, but to write people off as hopeless is incompatible with at least my personal philosophy, which holds that no one is irredeemable. I prefer to live in a world where people, including myself, can learn from (and be forgiven for) their mistakes.
- aw3c2 12y ago
  Are you calling me a misogynist? How on earth did you get to that incredible insult from my initial post? This kind of abrasive behaviour is exactly why discussing these issues seems impossible. This is why people like me get sick and tired of it. Please educate! Please give me objective education, I crave it!
  - paddyoloughlin 12y ago
    Your post seeks to minimise the issue (it's not about tech in general/just a few bad apples) something which is directly addressed in Part II of the original post: http://randi.io/wp/archives/91 http://randi.io/wp/archives/91 I think the reasoning basically goes that trying to minimise the problem of misogyny is a symptom of misogyny.