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This is a really huge deal. Englewood is a hurting neighborhood and community. These food deserts are real. Children in these areas sometimes grow up eating out

by et2o 12y ago

This is a really huge deal. Englewood is a hurting neighborhood and community. These food deserts are real. Children in these areas sometimes grow up eating out of vending machines because there aren't any alternatives. I'm not a romantic, but having had some firsthand experience, these situations are really tragic. It wouldn't surprise me if this was a package deal with the new Whole Foods opening in Hyde Park near the University of Chicago.

yummyfajitas 12y ago
Food deserts are real, and caused by consumer choice. Giving people access to health food does not result in an increase in vegetable consumption or a reduction in BMI. http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/giving-people-access-to-healthier-food-isnt-enough/ http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/giving-people-ac... tl;dr; The issue is demand side, not supply side.
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  So... i know someone. One day his kids were hungry and asked for something to eat. He gave them each a candy bar. He had access to FREE healthy food as he was staying with my parents at the time and he could eat anything there. He could have literally walked two rooms away to the kitchen and found something for them to eat. But i guess he thought a candy bar was just as good as any other food.
- smtddr 12y ago
  Note the last part of his article: "Access may be necessary, but it’s not sufficient. Policies that are aimed at just eliminating food deserts may not work. More needs to be done." There are a lot of reasons poor people don't eat healthier; supply is definitely part of it. But not just supply of food, supply of time as well. A poor person is probably working some physically taxing job and is just too tired to cook a healthy meal. Or too tired to get to the market selling healthy food, or... a million other things. It's not just "demand", it's not that they just don't want to eat healthy. Some don't even know fast food is unhealthy. Don't forget, we have people on HN defending fastfood hamburgers..... so imagine the potential confusion about nutrition in a poor & less educated community.
  - yummyfajitas 12y ago
    But not just supply of food, supply of time as well. A poor person is probably working... This is a myth. Poor people mostly don't work at all, and those that do typically work only part time. http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2012.pdf http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2012.pdf Some don't even know fast food is unhealthy. Some evidence and context for this is sorely needed. Note: if lack of information were really the cause, then you'd expect plastering healthy eating information all over the NYC subway would fix the problem. Did it? The best explanation I can come up with is the following. People with low self discipline become poor. People with low self discipline become fat and eat badly. They also don't exercise much and engage in other fun but harmful behaviors (unprotected sex, drug use, drinking to excess). But that's a naughty explanation, even if it fits the data quite well.
    - toehead2000 12y ago
      Typical victim blaming. Everyone knows poor people have no agency.
    - smtddr 12y ago
      What is it that you have against underrepresented people? Every post about them you're there to say "Nope, it's their own fault.". I only give you the benefit of the doubt because tptacek has you listed in his HN profile. What did you experience/witness in your life that has caused you to hold these views? 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7541664 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7076550 3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1214954 4. https://www.flickr.com/photos/31110324@N03/5370871466/ 5. http://www.datatau.com/item?id=3338 6. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8255165 7. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2129845
      - spindritf 12y ago
        From your first link, a comment by tptacek starts with I do not like where 'yummyfajitas logic takes us and would thus like to find ways to disagree with him, but much of what he says checks out. What if it's just that? What if what he says is simply true?
- et2o 12y ago
  Reading the rest of your comments makes it evident that you have an axe to grind. Food deserts are caused by decades-long social and economic pressures that may manifest as "consumer choice," as espoused in the following comments. It is really not surprising whatsoever that opening a grocery store in a food desert did not reduce BMI in the community in 6 months. From my perspective, you are using the veil of rationality to advance an intellectually dishonest and morally bankrupt argument. When I encounter a line of argument like yours, I find that it is nearly certain the other individual has little personal experience with underserved communities or individuals. I challenge you to any first-hand work in truly underserved American communities. The vast majority of these people are not simply lazy or lacking in impulse control, but are stuck in a socioeconomic feedback loop.

by et2o 12y ago

yummyfajitas 12y ago

Food deserts are real, and caused by consumer choice. Giving people access to health food does not result in an increase in vegetable consumption or a reduction in BMI. http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/giving-people-access-to-healthier-food-isnt-enough/ http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/giving-people-ac... tl;dr; The issue is demand side, not supply side.

UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
So... i know someone. One day his kids were hungry and asked for something to eat. He gave them each a candy bar. He had access to FREE healthy food as he was staying with my parents at the time and he could eat anything there. He could have literally walked two rooms away to the kitchen and found something for them to eat. But i guess he thought a candy bar was just as good as any other food.
smtddr 12y ago
Note the last part of his article: "Access may be necessary, but it’s not sufficient. Policies that are aimed at just eliminating food deserts may not work. More needs to be done." There are a lot of reasons poor people don't eat healthier; supply is definitely part of it. But not just supply of food, supply of time as well. A poor person is probably working some physically taxing job and is just too tired to cook a healthy meal. Or too tired to get to the market selling healthy food, or... a million other things. It's not just "demand", it's not that they just don't want to eat healthy. Some don't even know fast food is unhealthy. Don't forget, we have people on HN defending fastfood hamburgers..... so imagine the potential confusion about nutrition in a poor & less educated community.
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  But not just supply of food, supply of time as well. A poor person is probably working... This is a myth. Poor people mostly don't work at all, and those that do typically work only part time. http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2012.pdf http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2012.pdf Some don't even know fast food is unhealthy. Some evidence and context for this is sorely needed. Note: if lack of information were really the cause, then you'd expect plastering healthy eating information all over the NYC subway would fix the problem. Did it? The best explanation I can come up with is the following. People with low self discipline become poor. People with low self discipline become fat and eat badly. They also don't exercise much and engage in other fun but harmful behaviors (unprotected sex, drug use, drinking to excess). But that's a naughty explanation, even if it fits the data quite well.
  - toehead2000 12y ago
    Typical victim blaming. Everyone knows poor people have no agency.
  - smtddr 12y ago
    What is it that you have against underrepresented people? Every post about them you're there to say "Nope, it's their own fault.". I only give you the benefit of the doubt because tptacek has you listed in his HN profile. What did you experience/witness in your life that has caused you to hold these views? 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7541664 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7076550 3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1214954 4. https://www.flickr.com/photos/31110324@N03/5370871466/ 5. http://www.datatau.com/item?id=3338 6. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8255165 7. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2129845
    - spindritf 12y ago
      From your first link, a comment by tptacek starts with I do not like where 'yummyfajitas logic takes us and would thus like to find ways to disagree with him, but much of what he says checks out. What if it's just that? What if what he says is simply true?
et2o 12y ago
Reading the rest of your comments makes it evident that you have an axe to grind. Food deserts are caused by decades-long social and economic pressures that may manifest as "consumer choice," as espoused in the following comments. It is really not surprising whatsoever that opening a grocery store in a food desert did not reduce BMI in the community in 6 months. From my perspective, you are using the veil of rationality to advance an intellectually dishonest and morally bankrupt argument. When I encounter a line of argument like yours, I find that it is nearly certain the other individual has little personal experience with underserved communities or individuals. I challenge you to any first-hand work in truly underserved American communities. The vast majority of these people are not simply lazy or lacking in impulse control, but are stuck in a socioeconomic feedback loop.