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It isn't conflation. At all. Art, as a breed of language, holds vernacular, symbology, cliche, and many other facets within a culture. This isn't exactly grou

It isn't conflation. At all. Art, as a breed of language, holds vernacular, symbology, cliche, and many other facets within a culture. This isn't exactly ground breaking nor novel, but something that requires an understanding to begin an engagement with. It is as difficult to discuss topics as with any subject, when the two participants are resting on entirely different foundations. Akin to discussing linear algebra without considering the audience. Best I can do is offer entry points and hope you might see value.

cousin_it 12y ago
Deep down, I don't think our foundations are all that different. It's not like all techies are blind to the role of culture as a communication channel, they just tend to view it differently. The section on "Propaganda" in the article specifically addressed that. I encourage you again to spell out your disagreement in more detail.
foolrush 12y ago
Example: "Some areas of artistic endeavour seem to try to prove that art is worthless and a joke; it’s a little hard to explain some areas of modern or post-modern art" This has the sniffing of someone that isn't willing to follow the tendrils of a work, and certainly doesn't show a willingness to invest effort to understanding. How silly would it look to say "Some areas of software development seem to [xxx]" and conclude that, because something is hard to explain (subjective / contextual) that it therefore (implied) lacks value? Much like the rest of language, pieces exist in an ecosystem, and the meaning that emerges tends to be occluded until one invests in comprehending the contexts. Postmodernism, for example, is a clear move away from Modernism. I cannot count the number of times that I have seen genuine conflation of "Modernism" with "modern", for example. To understand Postmodernism requires an understanding of what came before and what it may be taking issue with. Of course, to wrap all of this up and encapsulate it as mere aesthetics or art is to ignore the very thing that gives art and other variants of language life; that it exists as a holistic thing in relation to philosophy, contemporary culture, historical culture, science, music, literature, and the rest of that complex ball. "Deep down, I don't think our foundations are all that different." Which is exactly why I am responding and attempting (probably failing) to communicate. It's not an easy task, especially when we consider the general culture around Hacker News, but one that I believe is extremely valuable.

cousin_it 12y ago

Deep down, I don't think our foundations are all that different. It's not like all techies are blind to the role of culture as a communication channel, they just tend to view it differently. The section on "Propaganda" in the article specifically addressed that. I encourage you again to spell out your disagreement in more detail.

foolrush 12y ago

Example: "Some areas of artistic endeavour seem to try to prove that art is worthless and a joke; it’s a little hard to explain some areas of modern or post-modern art" This has the sniffing of someone that isn't willing to follow the tendrils of a work, and certainly doesn't show a willingness to invest effort to understanding. How silly would it look to say "Some areas of software development seem to [xxx]" and conclude that, because something is hard to explain (subjective / contextual) that it therefore (implied) lacks value? Much like the rest of language, pieces exist in an ecosystem, and the meaning that emerges tends to be occluded until one invests in comprehending the contexts. Postmodernism, for example, is a clear move away from Modernism. I cannot count the number of times that I have seen genuine conflation of "Modernism" with "modern", for example. To understand Postmodernism requires an understanding of what came before and what it may be taking issue with. Of course, to wrap all of this up and encapsulate it as mere aesthetics or art is to ignore the very thing that gives art and other variants of language life; that it exists as a holistic thing in relation to philosophy, contemporary culture, historical culture, science, music, literature, and the rest of that complex ball. "Deep down, I don't think our foundations are all that different." Which is exactly why I am responding and attempting (probably failing) to communicate. It's not an easy task, especially when we consider the general culture around Hacker News, but one that I believe is extremely valuable.