4 ms·

Almost everyone commenting here falls into two camps: A) "NYC/SF is great" and B) "I've been to Des Moines, it's great." But nobody here really seems to be com

Almost everyone commenting here falls into two camps: A) "NYC/SF is great" and B) "I've been to Des Moines, it's great." But nobody here really seems to be comparing the two. If I live in SF/NYC and I want to move to Des Moines, what are the upsides? What are the downsides? Sure, Des Moines is a nice place with fun stuff -- but so are a hundred other cities in the US. What makes Des Moines different or a good enough draw to make me leave SF? Lower rent? I can get that almost anywhere else. Hipsters? There are plenty of those here. Big social clubs, nice restaurants, a music scene? I have that here, too. Bike-friendly? So is the Bay Area (downtown SF notwithstanding) Nice weather most of the year? Same as the Bay Area. What's the big draw to Des Moines? Or Portland? Or Austin? Why would I pick any of those places over SF or NYC or anywhere else? I don't think it's enough to say "NYC/SF is expensive. You should move to Des Moines, because we're great." I think you have to really make a case that life in Des Moines is going to be better than where you live now, or else I have no reason to uproot my life and move, yeah? (Genuinely curious -- I'm not gonna stay in SF forever, but I have no idea where I'd want to go next.)

couchand 12y ago
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the quality of the public schools. If you're thinking of starting a family that could be a compelling point. Iowa is widely considered to have some of the best public schools in the country.
yeldarb 12y ago
There is no one silver bullet but I can tell you why I choose to live in Des Moines. For me it is about the community. I like building things. Here, in addition to building my own startup, I am part of a group of people working to build a great ecosystem. It's exhilarating and inspiring to be surrounded by other people who are working together to make Iowa a great place to live. Being a part of shaping that nascent identity is a good feeling. That's, of course, not the only reason to live in Des Moines. The reasons, priorities, and motivations are different for everyone. I've heard everything from people moving here to raise a family (low crime, great public schools) to cost of living (paired with the low unemployment the standard of living way more than averages out), to the hundreds of miles of public bike trails, to the growing music and arts communities, etc. But really, it is hard to know whether Des Moines is the right place for you since I don't know you. It may not be, but I love it here. It is also always interesting to read outside perspectives. David Byrne (of Talking Heads fame) recently wrote about Des Moines and I think it captured a lot of the small "quality of life" details that are hard to pin down without experiencing them from a fresh perspective. http://davidbyrne.com/des-moines http://davidbyrne.com/des-moines
BuckRogers 12y ago
I might be able to help here. I'm a native Iowan. I've lived all over that state. I've also lived years in downtown Chicago and Austin. I've also lived overseas in France. I've been to the bay area, NYC, Miami, pretty much everywhere among other hot spots, but haven't lived in those places. I'm going to be honest, I know DSM well and if it were so great I'd be there now. I'm not sold on the growing hype train about DSM, and the cheap cost of living is an excuse for employers to give you lower wages. It's a nice, progressive city though. So yes, the best part about DSM is that it is a nice city, albeit a bit small. Part of the influx of people are younger Iowans gathering there as the other cities/towns have gone bust. As an individual with gainful employment, stay where you are unless you're made an offer in DSM. I can't honestly recommend anyone pack up and make the move without. A lot of employees run around that city with the same few insurance companies on their resumes. It's just a very small market. The short answer to your question IMO is that in the 'midwest revival' cities group, it's one of the best choices. It's better for a founder than it is as an employee though. I'm also looking to put down some roots at this point, Seattle, Chicago and maybe Portland are in the running. If you're from the west coast I personally would pick Seattle. For myself, I'm likely returning to Chicago to put down roots and buy a home, as a robust public transportation system means more to me than any other metric. Spending half my life in traffic isn't something I'm willing to accept. I think you're spot on though with questioning the hype.
- kfcm 12y ago
  Second BuckRoger's post, in general. I'm a native rural Iowan, who lived in Des Moines (DSM) part of my career, and am there often for family purposes. My recommendation is simple: Unless you are a CPA, actuary, lawyer or some other bureaucrat, don't move to DSM. In fact, I've advised many people to move away. The reasons are simple. While there are both tech and brick/mortar startups in DSM, the scene isn't huge and it does have life-span issues. Startup City closed up shop this fall after 2-3 years. Gravitate--the co-working spot mentioned in the article--is the latest in a series of attempted co-working spots over the past several years. Regular employment options are a huge concern too. DSM is government, insurance, mortgages and banking, with a handful of ag and convenience-store companies thrown in the mix. The common refrain I hear from old colleagues and family working for insurance/financial services companies is how unsatisfied/miserable they are, and how they wish there was someplace better to go. The marketing, advertising and publishing companies shouldn't be forgotten either. (Hint: re-read that last sentence in context of the article.) Another huge thing people don't often consider is airfare costs. DSM International traditionally has had very high airfares--so high, many companies have sent their employees to Omaha or Kansas City to catch flights, because it's more cost effective--even with mileage and hotel bills. Ignore the hype. There are much better places to live and work than Des Moines. I now live and have my own business in the Minneapolis/St. Paul (Twin Cities) metro, and couldn't be happier. For everything the article states about Des Moines, MSP is several orders of magnitude better.
curmudgeon224 12y ago
well hurry up and figure it out and move please.

couchand 12y ago

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the quality of the public schools. If you're thinking of starting a family that could be a compelling point. Iowa is widely considered to have some of the best public schools in the country.

yeldarb 12y ago

There is no one silver bullet but I can tell you why I choose to live in Des Moines. For me it is about the community. I like building things. Here, in addition to building my own startup, I am part of a group of people working to build a great ecosystem. It's exhilarating and inspiring to be surrounded by other people who are working together to make Iowa a great place to live. Being a part of shaping that nascent identity is a good feeling. That's, of course, not the only reason to live in Des Moines. The reasons, priorities, and motivations are different for everyone. I've heard everything from people moving here to raise a family (low crime, great public schools) to cost of living (paired with the low unemployment the standard of living way more than averages out), to the hundreds of miles of public bike trails, to the growing music and arts communities, etc. But really, it is hard to know whether Des Moines is the right place for you since I don't know you. It may not be, but I love it here. It is also always interesting to read outside perspectives. David Byrne (of Talking Heads fame) recently wrote about Des Moines and I think it captured a lot of the small "quality of life" details that are hard to pin down without experiencing them from a fresh perspective. http://davidbyrne.com/des-moines http://davidbyrne.com/des-moines

BuckRogers 12y ago

I might be able to help here. I'm a native Iowan. I've lived all over that state. I've also lived years in downtown Chicago and Austin. I've also lived overseas in France. I've been to the bay area, NYC, Miami, pretty much everywhere among other hot spots, but haven't lived in those places. I'm going to be honest, I know DSM well and if it were so great I'd be there now. I'm not sold on the growing hype train about DSM, and the cheap cost of living is an excuse for employers to give you lower wages. It's a nice, progressive city though. So yes, the best part about DSM is that it is a nice city, albeit a bit small. Part of the influx of people are younger Iowans gathering there as the other cities/towns have gone bust. As an individual with gainful employment, stay where you are unless you're made an offer in DSM. I can't honestly recommend anyone pack up and make the move without. A lot of employees run around that city with the same few insurance companies on their resumes. It's just a very small market. The short answer to your question IMO is that in the 'midwest revival' cities group, it's one of the best choices. It's better for a founder than it is as an employee though. I'm also looking to put down some roots at this point, Seattle, Chicago and maybe Portland are in the running. If you're from the west coast I personally would pick Seattle. For myself, I'm likely returning to Chicago to put down roots and buy a home, as a robust public transportation system means more to me than any other metric. Spending half my life in traffic isn't something I'm willing to accept. I think you're spot on though with questioning the hype.

kfcm 12y ago
Second BuckRoger's post, in general. I'm a native rural Iowan, who lived in Des Moines (DSM) part of my career, and am there often for family purposes. My recommendation is simple: Unless you are a CPA, actuary, lawyer or some other bureaucrat, don't move to DSM. In fact, I've advised many people to move away. The reasons are simple. While there are both tech and brick/mortar startups in DSM, the scene isn't huge and it does have life-span issues. Startup City closed up shop this fall after 2-3 years. Gravitate--the co-working spot mentioned in the article--is the latest in a series of attempted co-working spots over the past several years. Regular employment options are a huge concern too. DSM is government, insurance, mortgages and banking, with a handful of ag and convenience-store companies thrown in the mix. The common refrain I hear from old colleagues and family working for insurance/financial services companies is how unsatisfied/miserable they are, and how they wish there was someplace better to go. The marketing, advertising and publishing companies shouldn't be forgotten either. (Hint: re-read that last sentence in context of the article.) Another huge thing people don't often consider is airfare costs. DSM International traditionally has had very high airfares--so high, many companies have sent their employees to Omaha or Kansas City to catch flights, because it's more cost effective--even with mileage and hotel bills. Ignore the hype. There are much better places to live and work than Des Moines. I now live and have my own business in the Minneapolis/St. Paul (Twin Cities) metro, and couldn't be happier. For everything the article states about Des Moines, MSP is several orders of magnitude better.

curmudgeon224 12y ago

well hurry up and figure it out and move please.