4 ms·

A newly established startup that just needs an Internet connection maybe could be created anywhere - but a company, which at some point may want to bring in mor

by dr_ 12y ago

A newly established startup that just needs an Internet connection maybe could be created anywhere - but a company, which at some point may want to bring in more seasoned talent as it grows, is probably better off near the coastal areas, with a few exceptions.

arbuge 12y ago
That view is still too limited in my opinion. There are massive companies coast to coast in the USA, and they seem to have no problem finding talent (to the extent that of course they do - who doesn't? - but it's survivable). Dallas for example has a large concentration of Fortune 500 companies, which is about as "grown" as you can get.
- mentat 12y ago
  There are many "enterprise" programmers who don't know how to program. These are not the people who are going to scale your startup. If you think they are, you're going to probably go out of business finding out the cost of B and C players.
  - arbuge 12y ago
    Well, we do have some top-notch coders and engineers in the Dallas area, just as in any major metropolitan area... they're not all in the Valley you know.
briandear 12y ago
"Bring in seasoned talent.." All seasoned talent needs is an Internet connection. A successful company doesn't require a ping pong table. Basecamp makes more money each year than most startups ever will and they're entirely remote. I love in the south of France and work just fine without having to go to company HQ in New York. The only folks working in the office are just the sales guys and even they could do their work just fine from home if they were so inclined. Location is only relevant if you need an address to impress a particularly unelightened investor. The myth that the talent is only in San Fran or NYC is getting played out. I have several devs that work for me that live in Portland, Jacksonville, Atlanta, Belgrade-- folks all over the place and they're "top tier" talent. In fact I would argue that it's harder to recruit talent in NYC and San Fran.. Real wages are comparatively lower than pretty much anywhere else in the country and you're competing against places like Google, Twitter, Apple. Why would a Dev come work for your (figuratively) rinky-dink startup for likely less money and likely worthless equity (statistically speaking) when they could walk down the street and work for any number of successful companies? However if I lived in a place like Grand Rapids, your startup might be an attractive choice.. And it would even save you money: you can pay the same salary but you'd pay less for their health insurance and you could save on the extra office space. You could also save on the silliness like a "beer fridge" or whatever else is the latest trend in an attempt to be a great place to work. My criteria for a great place to work: competent product managers, an interesting product, a good salary, equity that isn't insulting, proper vacation time and other folks working with me that value high quality code. That's pretty much it. Your awesome office space is a waste of money and doesn't attract "good" developers -- a good dev is not going to sign up with you because of office space; those other elements must be there. Anyone that places a value of the office space over the value of those other things is an idiot. When I did work in an office in New York, I enjoyed my time the most with a company that had no windows, was in a cramped, shared space with barely enough room for a laptop, let alone a massive desk for my 27" monitor much more than the hip place with great coffee, a ping ping table and catered lunches because of the work we were doing and the people I had to work with. Talent should be location irrelevant for an Internet company. Actually, unless you have a warehouse or must meet customers in person or sell retail (or build a physical product,) the entire concept of an "office" is about as relevant as a VCR.
- programd 12y ago
  I have to agree 100%. I ran a company started in 1994 which was entirely based online, no office, contractors all over the world. Even then, other then an occasional "Huh. Really? You can do that?" nobody really cared that we did not have office space. Having said that you do have to have a physical mailing address, and it should not be your home. The govenment generally has a hard time dealing with a lack of physical presence, and it's useful to have somewhere to store mail packages until you are ready to pick them up. Get a business center mail drop. I think I paid about $20 per month for 10 years.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

by dr_ 12y ago

arbuge 12y ago

That view is still too limited in my opinion. There are massive companies coast to coast in the USA, and they seem to have no problem finding talent (to the extent that of course they do - who doesn't? - but it's survivable). Dallas for example has a large concentration of Fortune 500 companies, which is about as "grown" as you can get.

mentat 12y ago
There are many "enterprise" programmers who don't know how to program. These are not the people who are going to scale your startup. If you think they are, you're going to probably go out of business finding out the cost of B and C players.
- arbuge 12y ago
  Well, we do have some top-notch coders and engineers in the Dallas area, just as in any major metropolitan area... they're not all in the Valley you know.

briandear 12y ago

"Bring in seasoned talent.." All seasoned talent needs is an Internet connection. A successful company doesn't require a ping pong table. Basecamp makes more money each year than most startups ever will and they're entirely remote. I love in the south of France and work just fine without having to go to company HQ in New York. The only folks working in the office are just the sales guys and even they could do their work just fine from home if they were so inclined. Location is only relevant if you need an address to impress a particularly unelightened investor. The myth that the talent is only in San Fran or NYC is getting played out. I have several devs that work for me that live in Portland, Jacksonville, Atlanta, Belgrade-- folks all over the place and they're "top tier" talent. In fact I would argue that it's harder to recruit talent in NYC and San Fran.. Real wages are comparatively lower than pretty much anywhere else in the country and you're competing against places like Google, Twitter, Apple. Why would a Dev come work for your (figuratively) rinky-dink startup for likely less money and likely worthless equity (statistically speaking) when they could walk down the street and work for any number of successful companies? However if I lived in a place like Grand Rapids, your startup might be an attractive choice.. And it would even save you money: you can pay the same salary but you'd pay less for their health insurance and you could save on the extra office space. You could also save on the silliness like a "beer fridge" or whatever else is the latest trend in an attempt to be a great place to work. My criteria for a great place to work: competent product managers, an interesting product, a good salary, equity that isn't insulting, proper vacation time and other folks working with me that value high quality code. That's pretty much it. Your awesome office space is a waste of money and doesn't attract "good" developers -- a good dev is not going to sign up with you because of office space; those other elements must be there. Anyone that places a value of the office space over the value of those other things is an idiot. When I did work in an office in New York, I enjoyed my time the most with a company that had no windows, was in a cramped, shared space with barely enough room for a laptop, let alone a massive desk for my 27" monitor much more than the hip place with great coffee, a ping ping table and catered lunches because of the work we were doing and the people I had to work with. Talent should be location irrelevant for an Internet company. Actually, unless you have a warehouse or must meet customers in person or sell retail (or build a physical product,) the entire concept of an "office" is about as relevant as a VCR.

programd 12y ago
I have to agree 100%. I ran a company started in 1994 which was entirely based online, no office, contractors all over the world. Even then, other then an occasional "Huh. Really? You can do that?" nobody really cared that we did not have office space. Having said that you do have to have a physical mailing address, and it should not be your home. The govenment generally has a hard time dealing with a lack of physical presence, and it's useful to have somewhere to store mail packages until you are ready to pick them up. Get a business center mail drop. I think I paid about $20 per month for 10 years.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]