4 ms·

To give some more information about the French perspective here: - No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essentia

by a3_nm 12y ago

To give some more information about the French perspective here: - No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essential good.'", I have been unable to find any French source about this, and I am entirely unaware of such a declaration. I would be interested if anyone could point me to more information about this. - There is a fixed price law on books, which to my knowledge has nothing to do with them being considered "essential". The way it works is that the book publisher sets the final sale price of the book that will have to be applied everywhere (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loi_relative_au_prix_du_livre); https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loi_relative_au_prix_du_livre)... a maximal rebate of 5% is permitted, which in practice is applied everywhere (except for online sales, see below). This is not unique to France and exists in several countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement#Scope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement#Sco...). My understanding of the point of this measure is that it reduces competition between booksellers, allowing smaller booksellers to survive, and allowing them to offer rarer books than just blockbusters. - There is a cultural attachment to smaller bookshops, and a dislike of large foreign players (Amazon) even compared to large French players (Fnac, Gibert-Joseph, etc.). The smaller bookshops claim that Amazon's free shipping poses a great threat to their existence. Free shipping was challenged by the French Booksellers Association, ultimately unsuccessfully (http://www.maitre-eolas.fr/post/2008/05/15/954-le-prix-du-livre-n-inclut-pas-le-prix-du-timbre-poste http://www.maitre-eolas.fr/post/2008/05/15/954-le-prix-du-li...). Recently, however, a law was passed to achieve the same results, with online booksellers being forbidden to offer free shipping (hence Amazon.fr charges 0.01 EUR shipping for books) and being forbidden to offer the 5% discount. (http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000029210814&categorieLien=id http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTE... article 1). Of course, one could also argue that online bookselling makes books more easily available to the end consumer (and faster, say, than asking a library to order your books for you); but the problem is that the role of booksellers, to select interesting books and guide you in your choice, is lost.

rbehrends 12y ago
> No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essential good.'" It was part of the rationale behind the introduction of the Loi Lang (the "loi relative au prix du livre" you refer to above) in 1981. More importantly, this was how the French government managed to defend the law before the ECJ. See: http://www.librairiesatlantiques.com/index.php/les-grands-dossiers/loi-sur-le-prix-unique-du-livre http://www.librairiesatlantiques.com/index.php/les-grands-do...
icebraining 12y ago
the problem is that the role of booksellers, to select interesting books and guide you in your choice, is lost. Are booksellers in France really prepared to do that kind of guidance? To me that sounds like a romantic but unrealistic view, since it requires them to be both very well read and good judges of character. I've met people like that, but they're usually not interested in burning their life savings and losing their salaries to spend their days selling copies of Twilight.
- a3_nm 12y ago
  It depends a lot where you go, and I'm not an expert in this either, but there are some libraries and bookshops in France which will advertise obscure books with a custom criticism handwritten by someone from the staff; or where you can pop in saying "I'm looking for a good textbook for a beginner-level Russian speaker who wishes to learn French" and get useful advice. It is, of course, marginal in volume compared to large chains, but it exists. (I wouldn't be able to say, however, if it is more common in France than elsewhere.) (I am not especially familiar with it myself, but I would imagine that a good bookseller, or librarian, can be really important to people who are poorer, or less educated. If you want to read something or learn about something, it may be easier if you have someone to ask, rather than if you have just the Amazon website with a huge choice but no guidance.)
seszett 12y ago
> No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essential good.'", I have been unable to find any French source about this, and I am entirely unaware of such a declaration. I would be interested if anyone could point me to more information about this. VAT for books in France is 5,5%[0] which is also called the "reduced rate for first necessity products"[1]. It is the same rate as for food and water. Other cultural goods, transportation, fast-food and other products have a 10% rate, and the regular rate for all other non-special products is 20%. [0] http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprises/F22713.xhtml#N100EE http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprise... [1] http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxe_sur_la_valeur_ajout%C3%A9e_en_France#La_TVA_collect.C3.A9e http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxe_sur_la_valeur_ajout%C3%A9e...
- a3_nm 12y ago
  The 5.5% rate applies, beyond books, to a bunch of other things which are hardly first necessity: e.g., theater, cinema, the importation of works of art and antiques. http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000028416983&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006069577&dateTexte=20140101&oldAction=rechCodeArticle http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle... The Wikipedia article you mention refers to the 5.5% rate as "common consumption, first necessity, or to favor certain sectors. I would think that books would rather fall in that last category.
- twic 12y ago
  For what it's worth, VAT on books in 0% in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70110-zero-rating-of-books-and-other-forms-of-printed-matter/vat-notice-70110-zero-rating-of-books-and-other-forms-of-printed-matter https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70110-... Not because we're some sort of literary paradise, though. Probably some civil servant decided in the '50s that books were improving and zero-rated them, and now everyone would kick up a fuss if it changed.
highCs 12y ago
> No source is given for the claim Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lang_Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lang_Law

by a3_nm 12y ago

rbehrends 12y ago

> No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essential good.'" It was part of the rationale behind the introduction of the Loi Lang (the "loi relative au prix du livre" you refer to above) in 1981. More importantly, this was how the French government managed to defend the law before the ECJ. See: http://www.librairiesatlantiques.com/index.php/les-grands-dossiers/loi-sur-le-prix-unique-du-livre http://www.librairiesatlantiques.com/index.php/les-grands-do...

icebraining 12y ago

the problem is that the role of booksellers, to select interesting books and guide you in your choice, is lost. Are booksellers in France really prepared to do that kind of guidance? To me that sounds like a romantic but unrealistic view, since it requires them to be both very well read and good judges of character. I've met people like that, but they're usually not interested in burning their life savings and losing their salaries to spend their days selling copies of Twilight.

a3_nm 12y ago
It depends a lot where you go, and I'm not an expert in this either, but there are some libraries and bookshops in France which will advertise obscure books with a custom criticism handwritten by someone from the staff; or where you can pop in saying "I'm looking for a good textbook for a beginner-level Russian speaker who wishes to learn French" and get useful advice. It is, of course, marginal in volume compared to large chains, but it exists. (I wouldn't be able to say, however, if it is more common in France than elsewhere.) (I am not especially familiar with it myself, but I would imagine that a good bookseller, or librarian, can be really important to people who are poorer, or less educated. If you want to read something or learn about something, it may be easier if you have someone to ask, rather than if you have just the Amazon website with a huge choice but no guidance.)

seszett 12y ago

> No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essential good.'", I have been unable to find any French source about this, and I am entirely unaware of such a declaration. I would be interested if anyone could point me to more information about this. VAT for books in France is 5,5%[0] which is also called the "reduced rate for first necessity products"[1]. It is the same rate as for food and water. Other cultural goods, transportation, fast-food and other products have a 10% rate, and the regular rate for all other non-special products is 20%. [0] http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprises/F22713.xhtml#N100EE http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprise... [1] http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxe_sur_la_valeur_ajout%C3%A9e_en_France#La_TVA_collect.C3.A9e http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxe_sur_la_valeur_ajout%C3%A9e...

a3_nm 12y ago
The 5.5% rate applies, beyond books, to a bunch of other things which are hardly first necessity: e.g., theater, cinema, the importation of works of art and antiques. http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000028416983&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006069577&dateTexte=20140101&oldAction=rechCodeArticle http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle... The Wikipedia article you mention refers to the 5.5% rate as "common consumption, first necessity, or to favor certain sectors. I would think that books would rather fall in that last category.
twic 12y ago
For what it's worth, VAT on books in 0% in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70110-zero-rating-of-books-and-other-forms-of-printed-matter/vat-notice-70110-zero-rating-of-books-and-other-forms-of-printed-matter https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70110-... Not because we're some sort of literary paradise, though. Probably some civil servant decided in the '50s that books were improving and zero-rated them, and now everyone would kick up a fuss if it changed.

highCs 12y ago

> No source is given for the claim Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lang_Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lang_Law