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This is not surprising. Israel is the number-one allied country spying in America [1] The problem is that with so many Israeli supporters in either of the admi

This is not surprising. Israel is the number-one allied country spying in America [1] The problem is that with so many Israeli supporters in either of the administration [2] as well as in the FBI and on many campuses, any allegation of spying by whistleblowers is reacted by extreme retaliations. This is why we don't hear about it more often. This is not a new issue [3] from Pollard [4] to Rosen [5], recently [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/israeli-spying-on-us-has-reached-terrifying-levels-2014-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/israeli-spying-on-us-has-reac... [2] http://www.thenation.com/blog/spy-story-harman-saban-and-aipac http://www.thenation.com/blog/spy-story-harman-saban-and-aip... [3] http://archive.lewrockwell.com/ips/lobe122.html http://archive.lewrockwell.com/ips/lobe122.html [4] http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2014/0401/Who-is-Jonathan-Pollard-and-why-is-his-spy-case-inflammatory-video http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2014/0401/Who-is-Jon... [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Franklin,_Rosen,_and_Weissman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Franklin,_Rose... edited: typo

001sky 12y ago
Savoire/faire is every/where! http://www.businessinsider.com/nazi-scientists-space-program-2014-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/nazi-scientists-space-program...
ChrisGaudreau 12y ago
It is amazing just how much Israel spies on America, and how nobody knows about it. If you dare to say it publicly then your reputation and career are destroyed, and you are an antisemitic terrorist sympathizer, if not also a terrorist.
- tylerkahn 12y ago
  I guess that makes you a very brave person for speaking out publicly.
  - ivanca 12y ago
    This kind of snarkiness is one of the most damaging things there are. Its way more common in reddit and imgur. The only break there is in such communities for funny/cat pics are things like bansky paints but usually the most voted comment says something along the lines: "so edgy", "I think there is a metaphor here guys", or a snowden pic with comments like " you are such revolutionary, can I be your friend " and stupidities of the sort. The NSA has to do nothing, the public will render spying as serious as jaywalking by itself.
    - tylerkahn 12y ago
      Where exactly did I trivialize spying? What an excellent straw man you have constructed. You know what's more damaging than snarkiness? Hyperbole, group think, and poor rhetoric. Hacker News, reddit, and Imgur have it in spades.
- jcampbell1 12y ago
  Israel spies on America, America tapped Angela Merkel's phone. The job of spies is to know the internal thinking of the current administration. Spying, tapping, hacking, etc are not acts of war. In fact, they probably prevent more conflict than they could possibly ever cause. Had we listened to Israeli spies, we would have never gone to war with Iraq over WMDs. Spies save lives.
  - ak39 12y ago
    Except for the very same Israeli Mosad spies who knew much more about 9/11 before it happened. That could have saved many many lives indeed.
- tptacek 12y ago
  If Israel is #1 among our allies, France is infamously #2. You don't hear much about that either. I don't think this has much to do with antisemitism.
  - ak39 12y ago
    Of course it doesn't. But exposing and criticising France will scarcely receive the retaliation reserved for revealing Israeli spooks in the US. Much less (or zero) accusations of antisemitism.
- pavelrub 12y ago
  Please tell us exactly "how much" does Israel spy on America relative to other countries, based on what information, why is this "amazing", and provide some proof that "if you dare to say it publicly then your reputation and career are destroyed". It's amazing how HNs usual standards of logical discourse seem to disappear once the argument becomes political.
  - ChrisGaudreau 12y ago
    It's amazing how people who should know better demand proof of something obvious that's been written about so many times, just like how Fox News demands proof that Obama isn't secretly a Muslim. Or how people demand proof that goto is a Bad Thing™.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - pavelrub 12y ago
      Well in that case you shouldn't have any trouble providing written evidence of people who have accused Israel of spying on the US, and as a result had their reputation and careers destroyed, and where labeled as "antisemitic terrorist sympathizers" or as terrorists. It is you who have claimed that "nobody knows about it", and therefore it's neither obvious nor extensively written about, and it is you who holds the burden of proof.
tylerkahn 12y ago
Huh and yet here, as per your links, we have mainstream media reporting on it. Have those journalists been subjected to 'extreme retaliation'? Perhaps we don't hear about it frequently not because there is a conspiracy among 'Israeli supporters' (we all know what you mean bro!) but because the issue is not so pressing or widespread as you would have us believe?
- pavelrub 12y ago
  I don't see anything at all in your comment that doesn't contribute to the discussion. The fact that you are downvoted on HN for just for stating an uncommon opinion is disgusting and extremely disappointing.
  - the_rosentotter 12y ago
    I think people are very tired of the extremely preferential treatment Israel is getting in general. Can I say that without offending anybody?
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - pavelrub 12y ago
      Well in that case I guess it's ok to downvote all those "tiring" comments.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    > conspiracy among 'Israeli supporters' (we all know what you mean bro!) This line clearly links "anti Israeli" with "anti Semite". It's a vile tactic and does not belong on HN.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - pavelrub 12y ago
pavelrub 12y ago
The only source of your claim that "Israel is the number-one allied country spying in America" is a single Newsweek article from 2014, citing anonymous sources. Yet you treat it as an absolute fact. I don't remember anybody doing the same when Newsweek "exposed" Satoshi Nakamoto. You claim that "any allegation of spying by whistleblowers is reacted by extreme retaliations", yet none of your source ([3], [4], [5]) support any of that. So what reasonable allegations of spying were in fact reacted by "extreme retaliations", considering that the above allegations were all reported by big and reputable news agencies in the US, gained quite a large exposure, and are remembered by many to this day? It's quite common among people with anti-Israeli sentiments to make wild accusations and then explain away their unpopularity by appealing to some government pro-Israeli conspiracy. An alternative hypothesis, worth considering, is that the accusations are in fact baseless, and are unpopular exactly because of that. I seriously doubt that it makes much sense for Israel - a tiny country surrounded by enemies, with a rather limited budget that is never enough for anything - to devote any significant part of its intelligence efforts to developing sources in the US, instead of - say - in Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc'.

001sky 12y ago

Savoire/faire is every/where! http://www.businessinsider.com/nazi-scientists-space-program-2014-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/nazi-scientists-space-program...

ChrisGaudreau 12y ago

It is amazing just how much Israel spies on America, and how nobody knows about it. If you dare to say it publicly then your reputation and career are destroyed, and you are an antisemitic terrorist sympathizer, if not also a terrorist.

tylerkahn 12y ago
I guess that makes you a very brave person for speaking out publicly.
- ivanca 12y ago
  This kind of snarkiness is one of the most damaging things there are. Its way more common in reddit and imgur. The only break there is in such communities for funny/cat pics are things like bansky paints but usually the most voted comment says something along the lines: "so edgy", "I think there is a metaphor here guys", or a snowden pic with comments like " you are such revolutionary, can I be your friend " and stupidities of the sort. The NSA has to do nothing, the public will render spying as serious as jaywalking by itself.
  - tylerkahn 12y ago
    Where exactly did I trivialize spying? What an excellent straw man you have constructed. You know what's more damaging than snarkiness? Hyperbole, group think, and poor rhetoric. Hacker News, reddit, and Imgur have it in spades.
jcampbell1 12y ago
Israel spies on America, America tapped Angela Merkel's phone. The job of spies is to know the internal thinking of the current administration. Spying, tapping, hacking, etc are not acts of war. In fact, they probably prevent more conflict than they could possibly ever cause. Had we listened to Israeli spies, we would have never gone to war with Iraq over WMDs. Spies save lives.
- ak39 12y ago
  Except for the very same Israeli Mosad spies who knew much more about 9/11 before it happened. That could have saved many many lives indeed.
tptacek 12y ago
If Israel is #1 among our allies, France is infamously #2. You don't hear much about that either. I don't think this has much to do with antisemitism.
- ak39 12y ago
  Of course it doesn't. But exposing and criticising France will scarcely receive the retaliation reserved for revealing Israeli spooks in the US. Much less (or zero) accusations of antisemitism.
pavelrub 12y ago
Please tell us exactly "how much" does Israel spy on America relative to other countries, based on what information, why is this "amazing", and provide some proof that "if you dare to say it publicly then your reputation and career are destroyed". It's amazing how HNs usual standards of logical discourse seem to disappear once the argument becomes political.
- ChrisGaudreau 12y ago
  It's amazing how people who should know better demand proof of something obvious that's been written about so many times, just like how Fox News demands proof that Obama isn't secretly a Muslim. Or how people demand proof that goto is a Bad Thing™.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - pavelrub 12y ago
    Well in that case you shouldn't have any trouble providing written evidence of people who have accused Israel of spying on the US, and as a result had their reputation and careers destroyed, and where labeled as "antisemitic terrorist sympathizers" or as terrorists. It is you who have claimed that "nobody knows about it", and therefore it's neither obvious nor extensively written about, and it is you who holds the burden of proof.

tylerkahn 12y ago

Huh and yet here, as per your links, we have mainstream media reporting on it. Have those journalists been subjected to 'extreme retaliation'? Perhaps we don't hear about it frequently not because there is a conspiracy among 'Israeli supporters' (we all know what you mean bro!) but because the issue is not so pressing or widespread as you would have us believe?

pavelrub 12y ago
I don't see anything at all in your comment that doesn't contribute to the discussion. The fact that you are downvoted on HN for just for stating an uncommon opinion is disgusting and extremely disappointing.
- the_rosentotter 12y ago
  I think people are very tired of the extremely preferential treatment Israel is getting in general. Can I say that without offending anybody?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - pavelrub 12y ago
    Well in that case I guess it's ok to downvote all those "tiring" comments.
- DanBC 12y ago
  > conspiracy among 'Israeli supporters' (we all know what you mean bro!) This line clearly links "anti Israeli" with "anti Semite". It's a vile tactic and does not belong on HN.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - pavelrub 12y ago

pavelrub 12y ago

The only source of your claim that "Israel is the number-one allied country spying in America" is a single Newsweek article from 2014, citing anonymous sources. Yet you treat it as an absolute fact. I don't remember anybody doing the same when Newsweek "exposed" Satoshi Nakamoto. You claim that "any allegation of spying by whistleblowers is reacted by extreme retaliations", yet none of your source ([3], [4], [5]) support any of that. So what reasonable allegations of spying were in fact reacted by "extreme retaliations", considering that the above allegations were all reported by big and reputable news agencies in the US, gained quite a large exposure, and are remembered by many to this day? It's quite common among people with anti-Israeli sentiments to make wild accusations and then explain away their unpopularity by appealing to some government pro-Israeli conspiracy. An alternative hypothesis, worth considering, is that the accusations are in fact baseless, and are unpopular exactly because of that. I seriously doubt that it makes much sense for Israel - a tiny country surrounded by enemies, with a rather limited budget that is never enough for anything - to devote any significant part of its intelligence efforts to developing sources in the US, instead of - say - in Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc'.