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It's not just the US. Just today the UK press made the lead scientist of the Rosetta mission cry by attacking his SHIRT instead of celebrating his achievements.

It's not just the US. Just today the UK press made the lead scientist of the Rosetta mission cry by attacking his SHIRT instead of celebrating his achievements. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11231320/Rosetta-mission-scientist-Dr-Matt-Taylor-cries-during-apology-over-offensive-shirt.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11231320/Rosetta-mi...

lern_too_spel 12y ago
Nonsense. His achievement was celebrated as well. His shirt is the kind of thing that keeps women away from science, so the fact that he publicly acknowledged his error will make other scientists more consciously think about inclusivity, helping science in the long run.
- exstudent 12y ago
  Incorrect, women aren't as weak as you think they are. He worked with many awesome women to make this mission happen BTW. More likely this type of overreaction and hysteria will keep free thinking individuals out of science.
  - lern_too_spel 12y ago
    If you think this is not a big deal, you should become familiar with the Petrie multiplier. Women shouldn't need thicker skin than men to work in science, but that won't get fixed as long as we keep ignoring the problem, limiting the speed of scientific advancement by limiting the population of scientists. http://iangent.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-petrie-multiplier-why-attack-on.html http://iangent.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-petrie-multiplier-wh...
    - exstudent 12y ago
      This wasn't an attack on "men" it was an attack on a specific man and yes, it was totally outrageous. Women don't need thicker skin. No man or woman should be criticized for how they dress.
      - lern_too_spel 12y ago
        You didn't even read what the Petrie multiplier is, making your whole post a straw man attack.
        trhway 12y ago
        man, 'vei just read what the Petrie multiplier is. It clearly explains why, given equal sexism by men and women, women's experience is worst. Thus to equalize experience, according to the Petrie multiplier, men should decrease their sexism way below women's. Forcing men to decrease their sexism way below women's is an attack on men by definition, and the Petrie multiplier provides mathematical foundation for it.
        lern_too_spel 12y ago
        Is it really that much of a burden not to be sexist or racist? The obliviousness I see in this supposedly enlightened industry astounds me.
        trhway 12y ago
        you probably didn't read what Petrie multiplier is - it clearly explains why heavily disbalanced industry like hi-tech consisting of practically non-sexist/non-racist Jesus-es would feel like sexist and racist environment by the corresponding minorities. Onus is on you to show that people in the industry are actually sexist and racist - according to Petrie multiplier, minorities feeling bad isn't enough to conclude that the majority consists of sexist and racist people.
        lern_too_spel 12y ago
        You misunderstood what the Petrie multiplier is. It assumes equal non-zero racism/sexism/minorityism. It doesn't matter whether it is a majority. I posit to you that there is no reason why it shouldn't be zero.
  - dalke 12y ago
    I wouldn't want to work in a workplace which wears its objectification on its sleeve like that. Your argument seems to be that I'm weak because of all the opportunities available to me I would prefer to work someplace else. Thus, while I think that lern_too_spel is incomplete, in that some men may also stay out of science for these reasons, I strongly object to your name calling. I am not "weak" for my decisions on the sort of work environments I will participate in. Nor do I think that others, women or men, who make the same decision are weak. Yet, oddly, you want to call me and them names for making what I think are principled decisions. That sounds like a back-handed taunt by you to those who stay out of a given workplace for these reasons. There's of course no clear cut line. Would a shirt using Botticelli's "The Birth of Venus" instead be a problem? Playboy's famous "Lenna" picture for image processing? The full original Lenna centerfolds hanging on the wall? A background screensaver showing people having sex? Or on a related subject, a cross hanging on the wall, along with quotes from "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", and prayers to start off each workplace meeting? Mounted trophy heads from all of the hunts from various staff outings? A mariachi band walking through the offices every 10 minutes? Unairconditioned offices next to a pig farm and under the approach path to Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson airport? Each case is personal, and one's personal decision to avoid a certain workplace or even career must not be considered a weakness.
    - eruiu88 12y ago
      "I wouldn't want to work in a workplace which wears its objectification on its sleeve like that" ... and that's why no one wants to work with you as well. I dont know if you are male or female ? If you are male stop white knighting. YOu are not going to get laid by each time standing up for women. Women have their own mind and their own strength. If you are female your priorities are fucked up. Probably that's why you old piece of shit , basement hipster no one wants to hang around.
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  - NeverEnough 12y ago
    Is it hysteria to suggest that what men in a male dominated field think is appropriate might have statistical significance in the representation of women?
- jack-r-abbit 12y ago
  But at the same time, this guy is bound to get other people interested in science that may not have been before. He's a freaking inked up metal fan.[1] I don't think every person needs to make "more women in STEM" their life's mission. It is something that needs to be done. But what about a mission of "more [other people] in STEM" for a few of them. [1] http://www.metalsucks.net/2014/11/13/dr-matt-taylor-dude-put-probe-comet-cannibal-corpse-fan/ http://www.metalsucks.net/2014/11/13/dr-matt-taylor-dude-put...
  - Maxious 12y ago
    How many people need to make it their life's mission before there is at least one person who could have explained to this guy to wear a hoodie over his shirt? Why does it take a world wide live stream audience before it is possible to find someone in the building to make that conversation happen?
    - jack-r-abbit 12y ago
      Maybe it took a world wide live stream audience to find enough loud people to complain about it. Not every one has an issue with his shirt. So it is not without reason to think that nobody he works with took offense to his shirt because they know him for more than his clothes.
- OSButler 12y ago
  His shirt is the kind of thing that keeps women away from science? This all started with s.o. being offended by it while watching the original interview, but how can you come to such a conclusion based on that? Did the female student's lecture attendance/signup rate plummet since that interview? Is there any kind of imperial evidence that this person's shirt is making female students turn away from science? I honestly don't understand how it's even possible to get to that conclusion. If there's s.o. interested in a specific field and (s)he witnesses a major scientific breakthrough, then the last thing on your mind would be '...but how could the person be wearing that?'. If you're offended by it, then ask why this happened in the first place, because maybe there's an actual good explanation behind it. For me it's in the same category as people saying they don't want anything to do with computers because Turing was gay - how does one thing have anything to do with the other?
  - inclemnet 12y ago
    > but how can you come to such a conclusion based on that? I don't think anyone can prove it right now, only find it plausible or probable. Of course that's a long way from proof, but the opposite is also true - can you demonstrate that this shirt, in the context of a wider trend of what people can and do wear, does not affect the number of women in science? > Did the female student's lecture attendance/signup rate plummet since that interview? This is disingenuous, I'm sure you know that no criticism of the shirt is because this specific, individual incident would be perceived to be of overwhelming importance for any given statistic, and I think your attempt to portray things this way is a strawman or a horrible misunderstanding. As above, it is the example of wearing this shirt in the context of wider trends in what people do (and wear) that people are criticising. You can still disagree with them, but at least disagree on a point you didn't just make up.
    - xtrumanx 12y ago
      > can you demonstrate that this shirt, in the context of a wider trend of what people can and do wear, does not affect the number of women in science? We also can't demonstrate that it was in fact the shirt that made him such a great scientist.
- hobs 12y ago
  No, his shirt wont keep women away from science. The entire fiasco is not about science, it is LITERALLY the thing that I would want to avoid if I had planned going into this field, and I assume that women also do not want long drawn out discussions about what they are wearing INSTEAD of their impressive scientific achievements.
  - bayesianhorse 12y ago
    So you are saying pictures of scenes degrading and objectifying women as sexual objects can't make women feel degraded and objectified?
    - Evolved 12y ago
      They're only scenes degrading and objectifying women as sexual objects if women feel degraded and objectified as sexual objects about the scenes. As a woman made the shirt and gave it to him then it seems to be the case that at least 1 woman does not feel degraded and objectified as a sexual object about it which makes your blanket assertion disingenuous and patently false.
    - jarin 12y ago
      Consider that it may be more degrading and objectifying to treat all women as weak, fragile beings who must constantly be sheltered from things like shirts with retro tattoo art on them. While the rest of us are busy trying to help provide opportunities for more women to get into STEM careers, there's a whole cadre of privileged, middle class noise generators doing a great deal of harm (or at the very least, not helping) with these sexist stereotypes.
    - jobposter1234 12y ago
      No, he is saying this: 'No, his shirt wont keep women away from science. The entire fiasco is not about science, it is LITERALLY the thing that I would want to avoid if I had planned going into this field, and I assume that women also do not want long drawn out discussions about what they are wearing INSTEAD of their impressive scientific achievements.'
    - 12y ago
- eruiu88 12y ago
  I have put my dinner plate down to write this comment. What the fuck did you just say ? You dumb cunt. Do you have any idea what the fuck you are talking about ? Instead of celebrating his achievements on landing speceship on comet you motherfucking femiNAZI focus on his shirt ? I 100 % guarantee In you last 10 generation no one has achieved anything and in next 10 generations also no one will achieve anything. Seriously , if you are so obsessed about women in tech and science why not just leave this planet and create your own instead of CUNTing around ? I bet my $1M stock options on any woman, YES you FUCKING CUNT, on any women , worthy of this precise level of achievement. Seriously, you are burden on humanity.
- astrange 12y ago
  His shirt was a handmade gift from his friend's wife, who's a tattoo artist. I would personally be surprised to find out that tattoo artists are the kind of thing that keeps women away from science. I mean, it's probably a rare interaction. Blaming their parents seems more productive.
  - NeverEnough 12y ago
    it is that he found it an appropriate shirt to wear. as an extreme comparison, if it was a woman dominated field and they commonly wore shirts depicting scantily clad men with bulging pants, I think it would impact my desire to enter that field. I don't know that the parents can be blamed so readily. Here in Los Angeles at least, I've been very dissaspointed with what my classmates consider appropriate.
    - 1stop 12y ago
      As far as gender oppression goes... that shirt ranks pretty low. Lets solve, pay disparity and workplace harrassment before we deciding whether to worry about shirts. Feminism is not about being precious, it's about equality (which shirts have very little to do with).
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      > it is that he found it an appropriate shirt to wear. It was a hand-made gift from a friend. He did it to make her smile. In such circumstances I'd probably do the same thing.
- iuer98 12y ago
  Keep you fucking feminzai thoughts to yourself. Don't ever again post this site. This is your father's property. Also, never ever ever show up in front me in real life. I will fuck you so hard your all feminist thoughts will become stone age. Now , go FUCK yourself.
- kingofkings 12y ago
  Are you fucking autistic beta ? Go fuck yourself and grow some balls instead of whinning. You mentally retarded sick fuck. Is this what your mother father have taught you ? Judge by who is wearing what ? No wonder US is bastardized country.
- fucksaywhat 12y ago
  You idiot. People like you are disgrace to scientific community. Seriously , your sick thoughts are the problem , no one else. You son / daughter of a bitch are now going to control who is wearing what ? Really ? May be that's why you are such small person commenting on this stupid site and won't achieve anything better in life. Seriously, check your mental health. You retard fuck.
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HarryHirsch 12y ago
Oh, That Shirt. I thought that was just some feminists divorced from reality who got busy complaining. Meanwhile, during the livecast, when the go/no-go decisions took place the night before the comet landing, you could see one woman engineer and two or three men engineers on duty in the control room, and they all interacted with each other as if they were peers. I'm blessed to be ignorant about sexism in Silicon Valley, but in Darmstadt it looks that as a woman you are just fine.
- inclemnet 12y ago
  > you could see one woman engineer and two or three men engineers on duty in the control room, and they all interacted with each other as if they were peers. This is a remarkably short sighted attitude. I mean, maybe there is totally no problem with the shirt, but it's just a false argument to say 'I saw some women in science so there is no problem'.
  - HarryHirsch 12y ago
    No, it shows that civilization has arrived in Darmstadt. It's an ideal to aspire to, and the folks in the ESO control room have managed to get there. (I believe that in my old university department we have arrived in the same place.) Everywhere should be like that, and I doubt you get there by banning shirts with surfer babes on. Jesus was up to something when he said "But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person." This was in the context of observing the divine commandments. It's the problem I have with overly specific codes of conduct. If you are an asshole you can and will work around the specific stipulations, and you are and remain an asshole.
trhway 12y ago
the world we're increasingly living at. "I'd not know "- "What to wear? You'll come up with something." https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tHRyrybn_2w#t=4184 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tH...
Volundr 12y ago
This is the first I've heard of this, but it hardly seems like the UK press made him do it. The lady asked a question about his achievement and he responded talking about his shirt. Perhaps he genuinely felt bad about what he (probably unthinkingly) chose to wear, the possible message it sends, and wanted to address it?
- exstudent 12y ago
  It was a reaction to an article yesterday on The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/13/7213819/your-bowling-shirt-is-holding-back-progress http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/13/7213819/your-bowling-shir...) So sadly, it was the US press that made this happen.
  - trhway 12y ago
    American prudes can spoil a party like nobody else, you have to give them that.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  Like /u/exstudent says, it was a reaction to a Verge article and a huge shi(r)tstorm that followed after that, on Twitter and elsewhere. SJWs made the guy completely break down.
anigbrowl 12y ago
Moaning about a scientist's sexist shirt is probably a case of misplaced priorites, but it's not like anyone is denying the existence of the landing or the spaceship, whereas here you have public figures who cheerfully deny the reality of biological evolution or climate change in order to chase votes. It's not like anyone is going to gut the European Space Agency budget over Dr. Wossname's shirt, though.
- exstudent 12y ago
  No, but it's horribly unfair to ruin what is probably going to be the most important day in this guy's life. The shirt was made by a woman who's friends with the guy anyway. He's just quirky, not sexist. We shouldn't label him as such.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    I really don't care. It's not relevant to the original article about the misrepresentation of science in politics, yet your derail has become the largest thing in the thread and sucked all the oxygen out of the original discussion.
Blahah 12y ago
Nothing to do with attacking science and everything to do with making diverse members of the science community feel welcome.
- exstudent 12y ago
  Diverse, as long as you dress EXACTLY how you're "supposed" to. A friend made him this shirt. He was wearing it as a tribute since the day was important to him. He got nailed to the wall. Remember when scientists and engineers could dress how they wanted and be independent thinkers? It's sad to see that coming to an end. This is not a win for science or free thought.
  - Blahah 12y ago
    Diverse, as long as you respect your colleagues. Wearing a t-shirt with scantily clad women (or men) on it is not acceptable in any workplace. Just like watching porn is not appropriate in the workplace. There is no end in sight for independent thought in science, but the end of thoughtless marginalisation of women is most definitely overdue. edit: honestly - downvotes for this? Think about what that means.
    - exstudent 12y ago
      His female colleagues had no issue with the shirt. It was the guy who wrote The Verge article and the following pile on that had issue with it. In fact some of his female colleagues came to his defense on Twitter.
      - abstractbill 12y ago
        In fact some of his female colleagues came to his defense on Twitter. (as did the woman who made the shirt in the first place: https://twitter.com/ellypriZeMaN/status/533287464497332225 https://twitter.com/ellypriZeMaN/status/533287464497332225)
      - Blahah 12y ago
        That's completely irrelevant. The problem is that he wore a shirt that sexualises women in a televised major scientific event. Millions of people saw the video, and the image he projected was that he's more interested in sex than in making women feel welcome and valued in science. Which is incidentally the same image you're portraying.
nyrulez 12y ago
Why is this shirt sexist ? Since when are scantily clad women based themes sexist ? Or was it something he said that's missing in the article ?
- mikeyouse 12y ago
  It was a questionably appropriate shirt but when they interviewed him, he gave a strange answer about how this comet was “The sexiest mission there’s ever been. She’s sexy, but I never said she was easy.” http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/13/why-women-in-science-are-annoyed-at-rosetta-mission-scientists-clothing http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/13/why-women-in-...
  - Evolved 12y ago
    Thankfully, the term "sexy" doesn't just apply to sex as the informal definition is something exciting, appealing, interesting and/or stimulating.
    - mikeyouse 12y ago
      Meh, it was still a weird interview, especially combined with his shirt. I watched it live with my fiance and we were both confused and actually said out loud, "We'll be hearing about him later on." I don't think he's sexist, I'm sure he's a well-respected and well-liked scientist, and I don't think it's fair to judge someone's worth based on a short interview when they're not used to being in the spotlight. At the same time, I would expect more professionalism from the whole staff at ESA. Are there any offices where wearing this [http://i.imgur.com/oJ9bVDt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/oJ9bVDt.jpg] shirt would be okay? People are making a big deal about the fact that a woman made the shirt for him, but they seem to be omitting that he provided the fabric and asked her to make it.. A large part of the rationale for missions like Rosetta is the inspiration it provides to the next generation of scientists. Hearing crude jokes about how 'easy' the mission was from a guy wearing a nudie shirt doesn't exactly invoke inspiration. It's a shame all of the other incredibly smart, professional, and inspirational people involved with the project are overshadowed by this.
maxine0says 12y ago
This is stupid. His shirt looks like old pinball artwork. It's obviously a vintage throwback that's harmless to anyone who isn't currently obsessed with gender politics. These feminists are so divorced from reality they are desperate and seeing everything through the prism of their bunk thought-experiments that they have to make literally everything about their imaginary oppression. Can we have one good news story without trying to make it relevant to your gender-studies major?
- trhway 12y ago
  He should have had naked males in leather straps there too, I guess.
  - hellgas00 12y ago
    I really doubt people would be freaking out on twitter if some animated firemen looking guys were printed on his shirt, especially if was an established art-form like anime. I guess what offends one offends all and should be banned because it promotes oppressions, a lot to read into from the anime printed on a shirt.

lern_too_spel 12y ago

Nonsense. His achievement was celebrated as well. His shirt is the kind of thing that keeps women away from science, so the fact that he publicly acknowledged his error will make other scientists more consciously think about inclusivity, helping science in the long run.

exstudent 12y ago
Incorrect, women aren't as weak as you think they are. He worked with many awesome women to make this mission happen BTW. More likely this type of overreaction and hysteria will keep free thinking individuals out of science.
- lern_too_spel 12y ago
  If you think this is not a big deal, you should become familiar with the Petrie multiplier. Women shouldn't need thicker skin than men to work in science, but that won't get fixed as long as we keep ignoring the problem, limiting the speed of scientific advancement by limiting the population of scientists. http://iangent.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-petrie-multiplier-why-attack-on.html http://iangent.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-petrie-multiplier-wh...
  - exstudent 12y ago
    This wasn't an attack on "men" it was an attack on a specific man and yes, it was totally outrageous. Women don't need thicker skin. No man or woman should be criticized for how they dress.
    - lern_too_spel 12y ago
      You didn't even read what the Petrie multiplier is, making your whole post a straw man attack.
      - trhway 12y ago
        man, 'vei just read what the Petrie multiplier is. It clearly explains why, given equal sexism by men and women, women's experience is worst. Thus to equalize experience, according to the Petrie multiplier, men should decrease their sexism way below women's. Forcing men to decrease their sexism way below women's is an attack on men by definition, and the Petrie multiplier provides mathematical foundation for it.
        lern_too_spel 12y ago
        Is it really that much of a burden not to be sexist or racist? The obliviousness I see in this supposedly enlightened industry astounds me.
        trhway 12y ago
        you probably didn't read what Petrie multiplier is - it clearly explains why heavily disbalanced industry like hi-tech consisting of practically non-sexist/non-racist Jesus-es would feel like sexist and racist environment by the corresponding minorities. Onus is on you to show that people in the industry are actually sexist and racist - according to Petrie multiplier, minorities feeling bad isn't enough to conclude that the majority consists of sexist and racist people.
        lern_too_spel 12y ago
        You misunderstood what the Petrie multiplier is. It assumes equal non-zero racism/sexism/minorityism. It doesn't matter whether it is a majority. I posit to you that there is no reason why it shouldn't be zero.
- dalke 12y ago
  I wouldn't want to work in a workplace which wears its objectification on its sleeve like that. Your argument seems to be that I'm weak because of all the opportunities available to me I would prefer to work someplace else. Thus, while I think that lern_too_spel is incomplete, in that some men may also stay out of science for these reasons, I strongly object to your name calling. I am not "weak" for my decisions on the sort of work environments I will participate in. Nor do I think that others, women or men, who make the same decision are weak. Yet, oddly, you want to call me and them names for making what I think are principled decisions. That sounds like a back-handed taunt by you to those who stay out of a given workplace for these reasons. There's of course no clear cut line. Would a shirt using Botticelli's "The Birth of Venus" instead be a problem? Playboy's famous "Lenna" picture for image processing? The full original Lenna centerfolds hanging on the wall? A background screensaver showing people having sex? Or on a related subject, a cross hanging on the wall, along with quotes from "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", and prayers to start off each workplace meeting? Mounted trophy heads from all of the hunts from various staff outings? A mariachi band walking through the offices every 10 minutes? Unairconditioned offices next to a pig farm and under the approach path to Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson airport? Each case is personal, and one's personal decision to avoid a certain workplace or even career must not be considered a weakness.
  - eruiu88 12y ago
    "I wouldn't want to work in a workplace which wears its objectification on its sleeve like that" ... and that's why no one wants to work with you as well. I dont know if you are male or female ? If you are male stop white knighting. YOu are not going to get laid by each time standing up for women. Women have their own mind and their own strength. If you are female your priorities are fucked up. Probably that's why you old piece of shit , basement hipster no one wants to hang around.
    - deleted 12y ago
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- NeverEnough 12y ago
  Is it hysteria to suggest that what men in a male dominated field think is appropriate might have statistical significance in the representation of women?
jack-r-abbit 12y ago
But at the same time, this guy is bound to get other people interested in science that may not have been before. He's a freaking inked up metal fan.[1] I don't think every person needs to make "more women in STEM" their life's mission. It is something that needs to be done. But what about a mission of "more [other people] in STEM" for a few of them. [1] http://www.metalsucks.net/2014/11/13/dr-matt-taylor-dude-put-probe-comet-cannibal-corpse-fan/ http://www.metalsucks.net/2014/11/13/dr-matt-taylor-dude-put...
- Maxious 12y ago
  How many people need to make it their life's mission before there is at least one person who could have explained to this guy to wear a hoodie over his shirt? Why does it take a world wide live stream audience before it is possible to find someone in the building to make that conversation happen?
  - jack-r-abbit 12y ago
    Maybe it took a world wide live stream audience to find enough loud people to complain about it. Not every one has an issue with his shirt. So it is not without reason to think that nobody he works with took offense to his shirt because they know him for more than his clothes.
OSButler 12y ago
His shirt is the kind of thing that keeps women away from science? This all started with s.o. being offended by it while watching the original interview, but how can you come to such a conclusion based on that? Did the female student's lecture attendance/signup rate plummet since that interview? Is there any kind of imperial evidence that this person's shirt is making female students turn away from science? I honestly don't understand how it's even possible to get to that conclusion. If there's s.o. interested in a specific field and (s)he witnesses a major scientific breakthrough, then the last thing on your mind would be '...but how could the person be wearing that?'. If you're offended by it, then ask why this happened in the first place, because maybe there's an actual good explanation behind it. For me it's in the same category as people saying they don't want anything to do with computers because Turing was gay - how does one thing have anything to do with the other?
- inclemnet 12y ago
  > but how can you come to such a conclusion based on that? I don't think anyone can prove it right now, only find it plausible or probable. Of course that's a long way from proof, but the opposite is also true - can you demonstrate that this shirt, in the context of a wider trend of what people can and do wear, does not affect the number of women in science? > Did the female student's lecture attendance/signup rate plummet since that interview? This is disingenuous, I'm sure you know that no criticism of the shirt is because this specific, individual incident would be perceived to be of overwhelming importance for any given statistic, and I think your attempt to portray things this way is a strawman or a horrible misunderstanding. As above, it is the example of wearing this shirt in the context of wider trends in what people do (and wear) that people are criticising. You can still disagree with them, but at least disagree on a point you didn't just make up.
  - xtrumanx 12y ago
    > can you demonstrate that this shirt, in the context of a wider trend of what people can and do wear, does not affect the number of women in science? We also can't demonstrate that it was in fact the shirt that made him such a great scientist.
hobs 12y ago
No, his shirt wont keep women away from science. The entire fiasco is not about science, it is LITERALLY the thing that I would want to avoid if I had planned going into this field, and I assume that women also do not want long drawn out discussions about what they are wearing INSTEAD of their impressive scientific achievements.
- bayesianhorse 12y ago
  So you are saying pictures of scenes degrading and objectifying women as sexual objects can't make women feel degraded and objectified?
  - Evolved 12y ago
    They're only scenes degrading and objectifying women as sexual objects if women feel degraded and objectified as sexual objects about the scenes. As a woman made the shirt and gave it to him then it seems to be the case that at least 1 woman does not feel degraded and objectified as a sexual object about it which makes your blanket assertion disingenuous and patently false.
  - jarin 12y ago
    Consider that it may be more degrading and objectifying to treat all women as weak, fragile beings who must constantly be sheltered from things like shirts with retro tattoo art on them. While the rest of us are busy trying to help provide opportunities for more women to get into STEM careers, there's a whole cadre of privileged, middle class noise generators doing a great deal of harm (or at the very least, not helping) with these sexist stereotypes.
  - jobposter1234 12y ago
    No, he is saying this: 'No, his shirt wont keep women away from science. The entire fiasco is not about science, it is LITERALLY the thing that I would want to avoid if I had planned going into this field, and I assume that women also do not want long drawn out discussions about what they are wearing INSTEAD of their impressive scientific achievements.'
  - 12y ago
eruiu88 12y ago
I have put my dinner plate down to write this comment. What the fuck did you just say ? You dumb cunt. Do you have any idea what the fuck you are talking about ? Instead of celebrating his achievements on landing speceship on comet you motherfucking femiNAZI focus on his shirt ? I 100 % guarantee In you last 10 generation no one has achieved anything and in next 10 generations also no one will achieve anything. Seriously , if you are so obsessed about women in tech and science why not just leave this planet and create your own instead of CUNTing around ? I bet my $1M stock options on any woman, YES you FUCKING CUNT, on any women , worthy of this precise level of achievement. Seriously, you are burden on humanity.
astrange 12y ago
His shirt was a handmade gift from his friend's wife, who's a tattoo artist. I would personally be surprised to find out that tattoo artists are the kind of thing that keeps women away from science. I mean, it's probably a rare interaction. Blaming their parents seems more productive.
- NeverEnough 12y ago
  it is that he found it an appropriate shirt to wear. as an extreme comparison, if it was a woman dominated field and they commonly wore shirts depicting scantily clad men with bulging pants, I think it would impact my desire to enter that field. I don't know that the parents can be blamed so readily. Here in Los Angeles at least, I've been very dissaspointed with what my classmates consider appropriate.
  - 1stop 12y ago
    As far as gender oppression goes... that shirt ranks pretty low. Lets solve, pay disparity and workplace harrassment before we deciding whether to worry about shirts. Feminism is not about being precious, it's about equality (which shirts have very little to do with).
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    > it is that he found it an appropriate shirt to wear. It was a hand-made gift from a friend. He did it to make her smile. In such circumstances I'd probably do the same thing.
iuer98 12y ago
Keep you fucking feminzai thoughts to yourself. Don't ever again post this site. This is your father's property. Also, never ever ever show up in front me in real life. I will fuck you so hard your all feminist thoughts will become stone age. Now , go FUCK yourself.
kingofkings 12y ago
Are you fucking autistic beta ? Go fuck yourself and grow some balls instead of whinning. You mentally retarded sick fuck. Is this what your mother father have taught you ? Judge by who is wearing what ? No wonder US is bastardized country.
fucksaywhat 12y ago
You idiot. People like you are disgrace to scientific community. Seriously , your sick thoughts are the problem , no one else. You son / daughter of a bitch are now going to control who is wearing what ? Really ? May be that's why you are such small person commenting on this stupid site and won't achieve anything better in life. Seriously, check your mental health. You retard fuck.
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HarryHirsch 12y ago

Oh, That Shirt. I thought that was just some feminists divorced from reality who got busy complaining. Meanwhile, during the livecast, when the go/no-go decisions took place the night before the comet landing, you could see one woman engineer and two or three men engineers on duty in the control room, and they all interacted with each other as if they were peers. I'm blessed to be ignorant about sexism in Silicon Valley, but in Darmstadt it looks that as a woman you are just fine.

inclemnet 12y ago
> you could see one woman engineer and two or three men engineers on duty in the control room, and they all interacted with each other as if they were peers. This is a remarkably short sighted attitude. I mean, maybe there is totally no problem with the shirt, but it's just a false argument to say 'I saw some women in science so there is no problem'.
- HarryHirsch 12y ago
  No, it shows that civilization has arrived in Darmstadt. It's an ideal to aspire to, and the folks in the ESO control room have managed to get there. (I believe that in my old university department we have arrived in the same place.) Everywhere should be like that, and I doubt you get there by banning shirts with surfer babes on. Jesus was up to something when he said "But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person." This was in the context of observing the divine commandments. It's the problem I have with overly specific codes of conduct. If you are an asshole you can and will work around the specific stipulations, and you are and remain an asshole.

trhway 12y ago

the world we're increasingly living at. "I'd not know "- "What to wear? You'll come up with something." https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tHRyrybn_2w#t=4184 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tH...

Volundr 12y ago

This is the first I've heard of this, but it hardly seems like the UK press made him do it. The lady asked a question about his achievement and he responded talking about his shirt. Perhaps he genuinely felt bad about what he (probably unthinkingly) chose to wear, the possible message it sends, and wanted to address it?

exstudent 12y ago
It was a reaction to an article yesterday on The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/13/7213819/your-bowling-shirt-is-holding-back-progress http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/13/7213819/your-bowling-shir...) So sadly, it was the US press that made this happen.
- trhway 12y ago
  American prudes can spoil a party like nobody else, you have to give them that.
TeMPOraL 12y ago
Like /u/exstudent says, it was a reaction to a Verge article and a huge shi(r)tstorm that followed after that, on Twitter and elsewhere. SJWs made the guy completely break down.

anigbrowl 12y ago

Moaning about a scientist's sexist shirt is probably a case of misplaced priorites, but it's not like anyone is denying the existence of the landing or the spaceship, whereas here you have public figures who cheerfully deny the reality of biological evolution or climate change in order to chase votes. It's not like anyone is going to gut the European Space Agency budget over Dr. Wossname's shirt, though.

exstudent 12y ago
No, but it's horribly unfair to ruin what is probably going to be the most important day in this guy's life. The shirt was made by a woman who's friends with the guy anyway. He's just quirky, not sexist. We shouldn't label him as such.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  I really don't care. It's not relevant to the original article about the misrepresentation of science in politics, yet your derail has become the largest thing in the thread and sucked all the oxygen out of the original discussion.

Blahah 12y ago

Nothing to do with attacking science and everything to do with making diverse members of the science community feel welcome.

exstudent 12y ago
Diverse, as long as you dress EXACTLY how you're "supposed" to. A friend made him this shirt. He was wearing it as a tribute since the day was important to him. He got nailed to the wall. Remember when scientists and engineers could dress how they wanted and be independent thinkers? It's sad to see that coming to an end. This is not a win for science or free thought.
- Blahah 12y ago
  Diverse, as long as you respect your colleagues. Wearing a t-shirt with scantily clad women (or men) on it is not acceptable in any workplace. Just like watching porn is not appropriate in the workplace. There is no end in sight for independent thought in science, but the end of thoughtless marginalisation of women is most definitely overdue. edit: honestly - downvotes for this? Think about what that means.
  - exstudent 12y ago
    His female colleagues had no issue with the shirt. It was the guy who wrote The Verge article and the following pile on that had issue with it. In fact some of his female colleagues came to his defense on Twitter.
    - abstractbill 12y ago
      In fact some of his female colleagues came to his defense on Twitter. (as did the woman who made the shirt in the first place: https://twitter.com/ellypriZeMaN/status/533287464497332225 https://twitter.com/ellypriZeMaN/status/533287464497332225)
    - Blahah 12y ago
      That's completely irrelevant. The problem is that he wore a shirt that sexualises women in a televised major scientific event. Millions of people saw the video, and the image he projected was that he's more interested in sex than in making women feel welcome and valued in science. Which is incidentally the same image you're portraying.

nyrulez 12y ago

Why is this shirt sexist ? Since when are scantily clad women based themes sexist ? Or was it something he said that's missing in the article ?

mikeyouse 12y ago
It was a questionably appropriate shirt but when they interviewed him, he gave a strange answer about how this comet was “The sexiest mission there’s ever been. She’s sexy, but I never said she was easy.” http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/13/why-women-in-science-are-annoyed-at-rosetta-mission-scientists-clothing http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/13/why-women-in-...
- Evolved 12y ago
  Thankfully, the term "sexy" doesn't just apply to sex as the informal definition is something exciting, appealing, interesting and/or stimulating.
  - mikeyouse 12y ago
    Meh, it was still a weird interview, especially combined with his shirt. I watched it live with my fiance and we were both confused and actually said out loud, "We'll be hearing about him later on." I don't think he's sexist, I'm sure he's a well-respected and well-liked scientist, and I don't think it's fair to judge someone's worth based on a short interview when they're not used to being in the spotlight. At the same time, I would expect more professionalism from the whole staff at ESA. Are there any offices where wearing this [http://i.imgur.com/oJ9bVDt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/oJ9bVDt.jpg] shirt would be okay? People are making a big deal about the fact that a woman made the shirt for him, but they seem to be omitting that he provided the fabric and asked her to make it.. A large part of the rationale for missions like Rosetta is the inspiration it provides to the next generation of scientists. Hearing crude jokes about how 'easy' the mission was from a guy wearing a nudie shirt doesn't exactly invoke inspiration. It's a shame all of the other incredibly smart, professional, and inspirational people involved with the project are overshadowed by this.

maxine0says 12y ago

This is stupid. His shirt looks like old pinball artwork. It's obviously a vintage throwback that's harmless to anyone who isn't currently obsessed with gender politics. These feminists are so divorced from reality they are desperate and seeing everything through the prism of their bunk thought-experiments that they have to make literally everything about their imaginary oppression. Can we have one good news story without trying to make it relevant to your gender-studies major?

trhway 12y ago
He should have had naked males in leather straps there too, I guess.
- hellgas00 12y ago
  I really doubt people would be freaking out on twitter if some animated firemen looking guys were printed on his shirt, especially if was an established art-form like anime. I guess what offends one offends all and should be banned because it promotes oppressions, a lot to read into from the anime printed on a shirt.