3 ms·

A friend told me the other day that only "static" scenes really work, where you stay in one place. And when the player starts to "move around" the lag causes na

by neals 12y ago

A friend told me the other day that only "static" scenes really work, where you stay in one place. And when the player starts to "move around" the lag causes nauseousness. Is this true?

marknutter 12y ago
Static meaning what? Games where the observer is stationary, like flight sims or racing sims, are more immersive and less likely to cause nausea, but lag would be the same in both experiences.
yarrel 12y ago
Lag reduction is a big issue, and one that everyone is actively working on. I tried out two Oculus Rift DK2 demos at SIGGRAPH this year. The first didn't have the new head tracking, and you had to strap yourself in to a walking pod to move around. That made me want to throw up after a few minutes, although I think that was mostly the exertions required to walk on the spot in slip shoes on not smooth enough plastic, turn, and push against the edge of the pod. The second I was sat down for, and it did have the new head tracking on. No motion sickness, and it was a really immersive experience. So possibly, anecdotally, that supports the idea that moving is a problem, although I'd still blame the walking pod being really uncomfortable to use more than the on-screen movement.
soylentcola 12y ago
I won't speak for anyone else but I've had a Rift dev kit for the past several months and what I've found tends to confirm a lot of my expectations: in applications where your viewpoint matches your physical viewpoint (seated in a chair or walking around a small area that stays in one place while also walking in real life) nausea is pretty much not an issue when there aren't other issues with performance (like if you hardware can't keep up with what you're asking it to render, it will "stutter" as the framerate drops but that's more headache-inducing). Software like Elite: Dangerous or the tech demo "Sightline: The Chair" work great because your "avatar" is in the same seated position as you are. Once you try to shoehorn VR into a more traditional first-person video game style setup, it gets dodgier. Since you don't have the range necessary to actually walk around that far, people tend to use things like gamepads or the traditional WASD/mouse controls to move around. This can really throw you off because in a game, the mouse or analog stick controls your facing direction but in VR, so does your head. At the same time, in real life, you can face your body in one way and still move your head independently. In VR, it can take some practice to be able to "get" that without feeling nausea. Any time your actual head's motions aren't 1:1 with the view on screen it can get questionable. The closest thing I can think of is the feeling of "the spins" if you've ever had too much to drink and try to lay down. The seeming disconnect between head motion and viewpoint motion throws your balance for a loop. Then there's the whole forward-backward-left-right thing. If you're sitting in a chair but your on-screen body is running around or jumping or falling your inner ear is telling your brain a different story than your eyes are. Honestly, this is why I have my issues with some projects and users that feel a traditional FPS-game experience is the holy grail of VR. I can see how it would seem that way at first glance because how much more first person can you get? Still, experiences like Elite or The Chair or even a game like Couch Knights where you're looking around at a virtual "game board" while your surroundings stay in place really do create an amazing sense of immersion and presence. I think that while gaming will be the early focus due to the existing graphics engines and the fact that many gamers are used to buying high end computers and pricey peripherals, the real innovations will come with the projects that are just now getting started. Stuff like using depth cameras to recreate a 3d "movie" you can look around in or transmitting similar information over networks for 3d telepresence is going to be a much more mainstream and transformative development than playing the vidya games in VR. The article touched on a point that I'm always reminded of. Those old devices like the Apple Newton or even the more popular successors like the Treos and the PocketPCs were awesome and promising but the smartphone market didn't really take off for several more years because the hardware and software needed to make them polished, fast, and ergonomic didn't exist yet. The Rift is like my old Treo but someday the tech will exist to deliver something more akin to a modern smartphone at equally (relatively) affordable prices for average people.
- drobertduke 12y ago
  The "Elite: Dangerous" example is interesting. What's the difference between flying around in space and flying around a typical FPS game? I don't have personal experience with the Rift but here are some thoughts: - The "context" of the cockpit is helpful in some way, it's an environment which "agrees" with your inner-ear sense. If the cockpit were removed from Elite, would "presence" be lost? If a cockpit of some kind were added to a typical FPS game, would that decrease the dissociated-motion effect? - Movement is different in Elite. The environment that disagrees with your inner-ear (space and the things in it) is far away, moves more smoothly than a typical FPS, and is sparse. This probably makes it easier to accept than the fast, jerky movement inside small, constrained environments of a typical FPS.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
sp332 12y ago
The Rift team is experimenting a lot with exactly what causes the nausea, and is specifically tackling those issues in the newer versions. http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/17/4850272/oculus-ceo-gets-sick-from-vr-but-says-hes-found-the-remedy http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/17/4850272/oculus-ceo-gets-si... Women are more likely to get sick. http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2014/04/03/is-the-oculus-rift-sexist.html http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2014/04/03/is-the-... It also varies a lot from person to person, but seems to get better with exposure.

by neals 12y ago

A friend told me the other day that only "static" scenes really work, where you stay in one place. And when the player starts to "move around" the lag causes nauseousness. Is this true?

marknutter 12y ago

Static meaning what? Games where the observer is stationary, like flight sims or racing sims, are more immersive and less likely to cause nausea, but lag would be the same in both experiences.

yarrel 12y ago

Lag reduction is a big issue, and one that everyone is actively working on. I tried out two Oculus Rift DK2 demos at SIGGRAPH this year. The first didn't have the new head tracking, and you had to strap yourself in to a walking pod to move around. That made me want to throw up after a few minutes, although I think that was mostly the exertions required to walk on the spot in slip shoes on not smooth enough plastic, turn, and push against the edge of the pod. The second I was sat down for, and it did have the new head tracking on. No motion sickness, and it was a really immersive experience. So possibly, anecdotally, that supports the idea that moving is a problem, although I'd still blame the walking pod being really uncomfortable to use more than the on-screen movement.

soylentcola 12y ago

I won't speak for anyone else but I've had a Rift dev kit for the past several months and what I've found tends to confirm a lot of my expectations: in applications where your viewpoint matches your physical viewpoint (seated in a chair or walking around a small area that stays in one place while also walking in real life) nausea is pretty much not an issue when there aren't other issues with performance (like if you hardware can't keep up with what you're asking it to render, it will "stutter" as the framerate drops but that's more headache-inducing). Software like Elite: Dangerous or the tech demo "Sightline: The Chair" work great because your "avatar" is in the same seated position as you are. Once you try to shoehorn VR into a more traditional first-person video game style setup, it gets dodgier. Since you don't have the range necessary to actually walk around that far, people tend to use things like gamepads or the traditional WASD/mouse controls to move around. This can really throw you off because in a game, the mouse or analog stick controls your facing direction but in VR, so does your head. At the same time, in real life, you can face your body in one way and still move your head independently. In VR, it can take some practice to be able to "get" that without feeling nausea. Any time your actual head's motions aren't 1:1 with the view on screen it can get questionable. The closest thing I can think of is the feeling of "the spins" if you've ever had too much to drink and try to lay down. The seeming disconnect between head motion and viewpoint motion throws your balance for a loop. Then there's the whole forward-backward-left-right thing. If you're sitting in a chair but your on-screen body is running around or jumping or falling your inner ear is telling your brain a different story than your eyes are. Honestly, this is why I have my issues with some projects and users that feel a traditional FPS-game experience is the holy grail of VR. I can see how it would seem that way at first glance because how much more first person can you get? Still, experiences like Elite or The Chair or even a game like Couch Knights where you're looking around at a virtual "game board" while your surroundings stay in place really do create an amazing sense of immersion and presence. I think that while gaming will be the early focus due to the existing graphics engines and the fact that many gamers are used to buying high end computers and pricey peripherals, the real innovations will come with the projects that are just now getting started. Stuff like using depth cameras to recreate a 3d "movie" you can look around in or transmitting similar information over networks for 3d telepresence is going to be a much more mainstream and transformative development than playing the vidya games in VR. The article touched on a point that I'm always reminded of. Those old devices like the Apple Newton or even the more popular successors like the Treos and the PocketPCs were awesome and promising but the smartphone market didn't really take off for several more years because the hardware and software needed to make them polished, fast, and ergonomic didn't exist yet. The Rift is like my old Treo but someday the tech will exist to deliver something more akin to a modern smartphone at equally (relatively) affordable prices for average people.

drobertduke 12y ago
The "Elite: Dangerous" example is interesting. What's the difference between flying around in space and flying around a typical FPS game? I don't have personal experience with the Rift but here are some thoughts: - The "context" of the cockpit is helpful in some way, it's an environment which "agrees" with your inner-ear sense. If the cockpit were removed from Elite, would "presence" be lost? If a cockpit of some kind were added to a typical FPS game, would that decrease the dissociated-motion effect? - Movement is different in Elite. The environment that disagrees with your inner-ear (space and the things in it) is far away, moves more smoothly than a typical FPS, and is sparse. This probably makes it easier to accept than the fast, jerky movement inside small, constrained environments of a typical FPS.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

sp332 12y ago

The Rift team is experimenting a lot with exactly what causes the nausea, and is specifically tackling those issues in the newer versions. http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/17/4850272/oculus-ceo-gets-sick-from-vr-but-says-hes-found-the-remedy http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/17/4850272/oculus-ceo-gets-si... Women are more likely to get sick. http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2014/04/03/is-the-oculus-rift-sexist.html http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2014/04/03/is-the-... It also varies a lot from person to person, but seems to get better with exposure.