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Rump kernels (http://rumpkernel.org/ http://rumpkernel.org/) are essentially Unikernels for POSIX. I'm currently working on running unmodified application stack

by mato 12y ago

Rump kernels (http://rumpkernel.org/ http://rumpkernel.org/) are essentially Unikernels for POSIX. I'm currently working on running unmodified application stacks (base firmware/"not-OS" + rump kernel + userland application) on Xen and later, KVM and bare metal. Will be giving a talk on this at http://operatingsystems.io/ http://operatingsystems.io/ in London on November 25th.

aespinoza 12y ago
Can you share your presentation in HN ? I would very interested in the talk.
- justincormack 12y ago
  The talks are being recorded (I am organizing the conference).
m0th87 12y ago
How'd you get started with rump kernels? I tried poking around and there's not much documentation.
- mato 12y ago
  I was using rump kernels in an unrelated project for a client. In that project, the application I developed was essentially a Qt GUI for mastering custom UDF filesystem images. You're right that the documentation for the rumprun-* stacks (running unmodified applications on rump kernels + Xen/bare metal) is lacking, however, it's early days for this work. New, extra fresh, hot off the press! We're working on it :-) Note that rump kernels as such (sans the Xen and baremetal stacks) are well-proven and tested code, perfectly usable in production today.
- justincormack 12y ago
  Read the docs there are, and just try stuff... and ask questions (mailing list, irc)... The docs are getting better, and its getting easier.
- vertex-four 12y ago
  I found that the original research paper is currently the best (only?) proper introduction to rump kernels.
  - justincormack 12y ago
    It is being updated https://github.com/rumpkernel/book https://github.com/rumpkernel/book
- anttiok 12y ago
  While I can't speak for anyone else, the intent is that people would follow the "Getting started" tutorial linked from the front page of http://rumpkernel.org/ http://rumpkernel.org/ : http://wiki.rumpkernel.org/Tutorial:-Getting-started http://wiki.rumpkernel.org/Tutorial:-Getting-started If that is lacking, please let us know!
listic 12y ago
Why do you use Xen first? I didn't follow virtualization closely, but I thought KVM is going to be 'the future', because it was adopted by the Linux kernel and Red Hat.
- Nullabillity 12y ago
  Xen is a Linux Foundation project, I believe, so it's not like it's particularly dead.
chubot 12y ago
What's the architectural difference between Rump kernels and User Mode Linux? http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ IIRC Linode (or some similar company) used to use User Mode Linux, but switched to Xen for performance reasons.
- anttiok 12y ago
  A rump kernel is not an OS and it's not restricted to running in usermode. see: http://wiki.rumpkernel.org/Info%3A-Comparison-of-rump-kernels-with-similar-technologies http://wiki.rumpkernel.org/Info%3A-Comparison-of-rump-kernel...
  - chubot 12y ago
    That page doesn't say anything about User Mode Linux. I ask because User Mode Linux is basically a way of running the Linux kernel in user space on a Linux machine, which sounds like what Rump kernels are. From your response I'm not sure if you got that.
anonymousDan 12y ago
How do rump kernels differ conceptually from recent academic work on "Library OSes" such as Microsoft's Drawbridge or Linux based Oses such as Bascule or Grapheme?
- justincormack 12y ago
  The main differences are perhaps practical not conceptual. Drawbridge and Bascule are closed source. Grapheme attempts to implement a Linux compatible OS, from scratch, which is a huge task. Rump uses unmodified NetBSD code (kernel and libraries), so it is exactly compatible and updated continually as it is upstream in NetBSD. Also rump is BSD licensed, Grapheme is GPL, which is useful as you have to link it to your application.

by mato 12y ago

aespinoza 12y ago

Can you share your presentation in HN ? I would very interested in the talk.

justincormack 12y ago
The talks are being recorded (I am organizing the conference).

m0th87 12y ago

How'd you get started with rump kernels? I tried poking around and there's not much documentation.

mato 12y ago
I was using rump kernels in an unrelated project for a client. In that project, the application I developed was essentially a Qt GUI for mastering custom UDF filesystem images. You're right that the documentation for the rumprun-* stacks (running unmodified applications on rump kernels + Xen/bare metal) is lacking, however, it's early days for this work. New, extra fresh, hot off the press! We're working on it :-) Note that rump kernels as such (sans the Xen and baremetal stacks) are well-proven and tested code, perfectly usable in production today.
justincormack 12y ago
Read the docs there are, and just try stuff... and ask questions (mailing list, irc)... The docs are getting better, and its getting easier.
vertex-four 12y ago
I found that the original research paper is currently the best (only?) proper introduction to rump kernels.
- justincormack 12y ago
  It is being updated https://github.com/rumpkernel/book https://github.com/rumpkernel/book
anttiok 12y ago
While I can't speak for anyone else, the intent is that people would follow the "Getting started" tutorial linked from the front page of http://rumpkernel.org/ http://rumpkernel.org/ : http://wiki.rumpkernel.org/Tutorial:-Getting-started http://wiki.rumpkernel.org/Tutorial:-Getting-started If that is lacking, please let us know!

listic 12y ago

Why do you use Xen first? I didn't follow virtualization closely, but I thought KVM is going to be 'the future', because it was adopted by the Linux kernel and Red Hat.

Nullabillity 12y ago
Xen is a Linux Foundation project, I believe, so it's not like it's particularly dead.

chubot 12y ago

What's the architectural difference between Rump kernels and User Mode Linux? http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ IIRC Linode (or some similar company) used to use User Mode Linux, but switched to Xen for performance reasons.

anttiok 12y ago
A rump kernel is not an OS and it's not restricted to running in usermode. see: http://wiki.rumpkernel.org/Info%3A-Comparison-of-rump-kernels-with-similar-technologies http://wiki.rumpkernel.org/Info%3A-Comparison-of-rump-kernel...
- chubot 12y ago
  That page doesn't say anything about User Mode Linux. I ask because User Mode Linux is basically a way of running the Linux kernel in user space on a Linux machine, which sounds like what Rump kernels are. From your response I'm not sure if you got that.

anonymousDan 12y ago

How do rump kernels differ conceptually from recent academic work on "Library OSes" such as Microsoft's Drawbridge or Linux based Oses such as Bascule or Grapheme?

justincormack 12y ago
The main differences are perhaps practical not conceptual. Drawbridge and Bascule are closed source. Grapheme attempts to implement a Linux compatible OS, from scratch, which is a huge task. Rump uses unmodified NetBSD code (kernel and libraries), so it is exactly compatible and updated continually as it is upstream in NetBSD. Also rump is BSD licensed, Grapheme is GPL, which is useful as you have to link it to your application.