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I have a PhD in mathematics and left academia ultimately to end up as a data scientist. Some people at previous prospective employers felt intimidated by my PhD

I have a PhD in mathematics and left academia ultimately to end up as a data scientist. Some people at previous prospective employers felt intimidated by my PhD despite the fact that I took steps to downplay it ("No, you don't have to call me Dr. Maney. 'Jack' is fine."). And I've missed out on a few jobs because of the impression that I'd be too bored. And yes, I've taken on "data science" positions where I essentially became a chart monkey. That, however, is altogether another rant...

x0x0 12y ago
So, here's the deal. I've run and hired data science teams. The first obvious problem is location. The second obvious problem is money -- you're probably wildly overestimating the value of math, and underestimating the value of knowing your way, in a non-theoretical sense, around the standard ML and nlp tools, and the toolkits that implement them. Third, I dump all resumes that say mathematics, particularly phd math, unless there is a very strong indication you can code. The problem is this: most data science, in practice, is at least 50% coding / coding type activities. Data is scattered across multiple databases, requires serious cleaning and merging, requires merging external data sources, etc. I also need at least some productization of the output, rather than tossing a hacked-together R/python script with a pile of un-automated db extractions to an engineer. So I'm faced with a dilemma: if you can't code, where code means talk to multiple databases, extract data from them in a somewhat self-sufficient matter, and deal with a lot of the other tasks, I either have an incredibly unproductive data scientist or I have to dedicate half to 3/4 of an engineer to you, leaving me with a severe negative productivity increase from hiring you, because I don't exactly have too many available engineers. Now, as I'm sure you'll protest, you can learn all these things! Yes, you may well be able to (though some math people never get particularly competent at them.) However, that's 6-18 months where you'll be pretty unproductive for me, and I need the productivity much sooner than that. And yes, lots of companies essentially lie about data science jobs, and they're really data engineering / writing data pipelines. I left a former employer after 8 weeks because of this...
- jackmaney 12y ago
  When did I say I couldn't code? When did I say that I wasn't comfortable munging data from various sources? I don't know the source of the chip on your shoulder. I have no idea who you think you're responding to when you read my post above, but it isn't me.
  - x0x0 12y ago
    I was talking generally about why you may have had problems. Sorry for trying to help, princess. Chip on shoulder? Try the mirror.
    - simplemath 12y ago
      I think a lot of the problems with your teams may have been you.
    - jackmaney 12y ago
      I sincerely hope that we never cross paths. I would never want to work on the same team as you. For what it's worth, though, you do have a point in that location is also an issue. Regardless, your "help" was not asked for and is most definitely not needed.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    So you want help or not? If that description doesn't apply to you, fine. But in the commenters experience, they'd encountered all that. Frustration can make anybody testy. But unless this topic is a rhetorical question, then it'd be nice to respect honest responses that add to the conversation.
    - jackmaney 12y ago
      When did I say that I wanted help? In case it isn't clear, I neither need nor want the kind of "help" that is being offered in this thread, thanks.
      - 12y ago

x0x0 12y ago

So, here's the deal. I've run and hired data science teams. The first obvious problem is location. The second obvious problem is money -- you're probably wildly overestimating the value of math, and underestimating the value of knowing your way, in a non-theoretical sense, around the standard ML and nlp tools, and the toolkits that implement them. Third, I dump all resumes that say mathematics, particularly phd math, unless there is a very strong indication you can code. The problem is this: most data science, in practice, is at least 50% coding / coding type activities. Data is scattered across multiple databases, requires serious cleaning and merging, requires merging external data sources, etc. I also need at least some productization of the output, rather than tossing a hacked-together R/python script with a pile of un-automated db extractions to an engineer. So I'm faced with a dilemma: if you can't code, where code means talk to multiple databases, extract data from them in a somewhat self-sufficient matter, and deal with a lot of the other tasks, I either have an incredibly unproductive data scientist or I have to dedicate half to 3/4 of an engineer to you, leaving me with a severe negative productivity increase from hiring you, because I don't exactly have too many available engineers. Now, as I'm sure you'll protest, you can learn all these things! Yes, you may well be able to (though some math people never get particularly competent at them.) However, that's 6-18 months where you'll be pretty unproductive for me, and I need the productivity much sooner than that. And yes, lots of companies essentially lie about data science jobs, and they're really data engineering / writing data pipelines. I left a former employer after 8 weeks because of this...

jackmaney 12y ago
When did I say I couldn't code? When did I say that I wasn't comfortable munging data from various sources? I don't know the source of the chip on your shoulder. I have no idea who you think you're responding to when you read my post above, but it isn't me.
- x0x0 12y ago
  I was talking generally about why you may have had problems. Sorry for trying to help, princess. Chip on shoulder? Try the mirror.
  - simplemath 12y ago
    I think a lot of the problems with your teams may have been you.
  - jackmaney 12y ago
    I sincerely hope that we never cross paths. I would never want to work on the same team as you. For what it's worth, though, you do have a point in that location is also an issue. Regardless, your "help" was not asked for and is most definitely not needed.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  So you want help or not? If that description doesn't apply to you, fine. But in the commenters experience, they'd encountered all that. Frustration can make anybody testy. But unless this topic is a rhetorical question, then it'd be nice to respect honest responses that add to the conversation.
  - jackmaney 12y ago
    When did I say that I wanted help? In case it isn't clear, I neither need nor want the kind of "help" that is being offered in this thread, thanks.
    - 12y ago