5 ms·

All I have is anecdotes, but I'll hazard some guesses. The talent shortage has a strong geographic component. In SV or NYC, job search sites (a poor way to ga

by tom_b 12y ago

All I have is anecdotes, but I'll hazard some guesses. The talent shortage has a strong geographic component. In SV or NYC, job search sites (a poor way to gauge actual demand, but whatever) seem to list 1,000s of available Java/C# gigs, with substantial numbers of listing that include javascript. But I would probably lump those three languages together as placeholder flags to indicate "standard enterprise developer" jobs. Most of these job listing seem to fall on the entry-level, with a steep fall-off in mid-level offerings, and a few (mythical?) mega-$$ listings. These types of jobs feel more "credential sensitive" to me - if your resume (not CV) doesn't say Comp Sci or maybe MIS, you probably get binned immediately. Leave those regions, job listings seem to drop. If we can trust these listings to reflect some level of region-comparable demand, we might guess that in Seattle, WA or Chicago, IL, there is about 1/2 the demand of SV and NYC. Cut it down even more in places like Austin, TX or RTP, NC, maybe 1/6 or 1/8 the demand of SV and NYC? I'm sure we could include a bunch of other cities in those tiers, but maybe those are loosely representative. I often wonder how much job demand looks inflated on these job boards though. A quick glance at Java in NYC, NY on indeed.com shows a few big staffing companies with hundreds of listings. I usually assume there are bunch of duplicate listings from staffing companies for a single position. I think a lot of lower-level gigs out there are filled by kind-of-passable candidates not making anything like the SV salary numbers that get thrown out on HN frequently. Among strong engineers I personally know in my region, several are frequently contacted by recruiters for jobs that are, at best, side-ways moves for them (eg doing the same gig at some different place for roughly the same money). A PhD (and maybe even a MS) might scare employers at this level? The other part of this, especially regarding the original article, is that deep, strong statistical/machine learning/magic fairy dust hacking gigs are much less numerous that the standard enterprise dev jobs and that those gigs are even more restrictive in recruiting nature. Meaning, if you are really recruiting for a top-notch "data science" person, you are probably(?) looking for intensive credentials or portfolios. So MS or PhD in Applied Math or Statistics with easily demonstrated programming skills or a set of completed projects cast in the "data science" space. And if you're not recruiting at that level, the "data science" label means "query some data sources to generate a tabular report, maybe with some rollups."

drzaiusapelord 12y ago
A recruiter here in Chicago tells me he's dying for entry level ASP.NET and back-end Java coders. I think a lot of these companies just run these guys through at largely unimpressive wages, run a bunch of candidte through as temp to perm, and hope to god one guy out of 20 isn't a complete moron. I've had the displeasure of working with some of these guys. They have some paper certs and some basic understanding of what they're doing but they have zero big picture and any love of what they are doing. Don't get me started on their work from a security or stability perspective. These guys are just in the wrong field. They heard the siren's song of being a coder, did some coding bootcamp or took a community college class or two, and are shoved into big departments churning out junk code. I think these jobs echo how a lot of basic IT support staff in the late 90s and early 2000s got work. Companies were scrambling for someone to sit down with end users and explain how Outlook worked, install software, and maybe reboot the occasional server. These guys all ran to braindump sites, got a MCSE or CCNA, and now are lifers at the company they fooled into hiring them. There's something somewhat sad about all this. These people probably would have been better off in a different field but are now stuck in unpromotable positions because they just don't have what it takes to move up. Our own support guy is in his 40s and is barely competent at providing basic level 1 PC desktop support. He's totally in the wrong field. I'm not saying this stuff is a calling, but in some ways it is. Like a lot of technical jobs, you kinda have to make it your religion and invest a bit of your personal time into it because its so fast moving that if you treat it like a 9-5 desk job, you'll fall behind very quickly.
- pm90 12y ago
  > Like a lot of technical jobs, you kinda have to make it your religion and invest a bit of your personal time into it because its so fast moving that if you treat it like a 9-5 desk job, you'll fall behind very quickly. I feel this statement should be emphasized a lot more. The technology scene is changing so fast that you HAVE to invest time in learning new things all the time, or at bare minimum hang out with people who do. I feel that this is kinda the flip side to working in technology: people see the great pay and benefits and wonder why they are being paid so well? Well, its because you're skills are in demand....for now. They may not be very soon, so be sure that your skills are upto date.

by tom_b 12y ago

drzaiusapelord 12y ago

A recruiter here in Chicago tells me he's dying for entry level ASP.NET and back-end Java coders. I think a lot of these companies just run these guys through at largely unimpressive wages, run a bunch of candidte through as temp to perm, and hope to god one guy out of 20 isn't a complete moron. I've had the displeasure of working with some of these guys. They have some paper certs and some basic understanding of what they're doing but they have zero big picture and any love of what they are doing. Don't get me started on their work from a security or stability perspective. These guys are just in the wrong field. They heard the siren's song of being a coder, did some coding bootcamp or took a community college class or two, and are shoved into big departments churning out junk code. I think these jobs echo how a lot of basic IT support staff in the late 90s and early 2000s got work. Companies were scrambling for someone to sit down with end users and explain how Outlook worked, install software, and maybe reboot the occasional server. These guys all ran to braindump sites, got a MCSE or CCNA, and now are lifers at the company they fooled into hiring them. There's something somewhat sad about all this. These people probably would have been better off in a different field but are now stuck in unpromotable positions because they just don't have what it takes to move up. Our own support guy is in his 40s and is barely competent at providing basic level 1 PC desktop support. He's totally in the wrong field. I'm not saying this stuff is a calling, but in some ways it is. Like a lot of technical jobs, you kinda have to make it your religion and invest a bit of your personal time into it because its so fast moving that if you treat it like a 9-5 desk job, you'll fall behind very quickly.

pm90 12y ago
> Like a lot of technical jobs, you kinda have to make it your religion and invest a bit of your personal time into it because its so fast moving that if you treat it like a 9-5 desk job, you'll fall behind very quickly. I feel this statement should be emphasized a lot more. The technology scene is changing so fast that you HAVE to invest time in learning new things all the time, or at bare minimum hang out with people who do. I feel that this is kinda the flip side to working in technology: people see the great pay and benefits and wonder why they are being paid so well? Well, its because you're skills are in demand....for now. They may not be very soon, so be sure that your skills are upto date.