4 ms·

Not to take anything away from this (obviously) smart kid, but this is exactly why less emphasis should be placed on particular "certifications".

by gregd 12y ago

ceejayoz 12y ago
Why? If a five year old can run a marathon, does that suddenly mean completing one isn't much work?
- Cuuugi 12y ago
  His point is they aren't the same difficulty. Microsoft has hundreds of tests. Your metaphor doesn't work. Good for him regardless.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    > His point is they aren't the same difficulty. His point is not borne out by one data point.
- smeyer 12y ago
  It doesn't mean the certification (or marathon, or whatever) is intrinsically easier than it was before, but it does mean you may have been overestimating it.
  - cwyers 12y ago
    I don't know as that's true, any more than some child prodigy grand master means I've been overestimating chess.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    If lots of five year olds were completing it, perhaps. One isn't conclusive evidence of any level of difficulty. Five year old Mozart could compose music in a way most adults can't - that hardly means composing is easy.
- murbard2 12y ago
  It depends how confident you are that running a marathon is difficult. If I tell you that a five year old ran a marathon, that's one impressive five year old. If I tell you that I organize a whacky foot race every summer and that a five year old finished it last year, my whacky foot race is probably not very challenging. A priori, I don't really know how hard Microsoft certficiation is, and I don't know how talented this five year old is. But reading the article tells me that he is probably quite talented, and that Microsoft certification is probably not that challenging.
  - ryanisnan 12y ago
    So... Microsoft certification is somewhere between a marathon and a wacky foot race? Maybe like an endurance potato sack race? I can't get the thought of Microsoft's certification exams having some wacky foot race component now, and damn would I love to do that.
- pizza234 12y ago
  It's a tricky subject, but the Microsoft exams (and such format, more in general) are not meaningful (I've passed several). They're mostly based on memorizing dialogs, messages and arcane rules, with little space for (domain) reasoning. This can be argued of many types of exams of course, but this type of certifications are much more based on this type of "knowledge". In addition to that, preparation for this exams can be cheated by finding (widespread) packages/books which include the exact questions one will find. Any person which doesn't understand anything about computers but have a good memory, will pass it. Of course, it's notable that a child has such capacity, but given the nature of the test, it's nothing noteworthy.
ghshephard 12y ago
That isn't logical. You are being ageist, and suggesting that because a five year old was capable of acquiring a certification, that the certification has less value. It's also entirely possible that this incredible kid is supremely skilled, and would do a great job configuring your network/IT system. Put another way - if I can find you a five year old ranked 1200 on the ELO system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_system) (the equivalent of "Basic Competence" in chess) - does that say more about the ELO system, or the five year old?
- GeneralMayhem 12y ago
  Bad analogy. ELO isn't really a rating system, it's a ranking system. In order to be ranked 1200, you have to be able to beat people ranked below 1200. A 5 year old being rated highly (and I'd believe there are 5 year olds significantly above 1200) against adults proves by definition that he's extraordinary on an adult scale. Microsoft certs, on the other hand, are fixed. It's possible (although unlikely) that they're passable by someone at a 4 year old level.
- mikeash 12y ago
  The difference is that the ELO score is determined by measuring exactly the same thing that the score is meant to indicate: competence in chess. Whereas a Microsoft certificate is supposed to indicate competence at various real-world IT tasks, but there's no direct link between the two. It's likely that this five-year-old would not be able to perform effectively in the professional capacity that this test is supposed to be for. Whereas a five-year-old with a 1200 ELO score is guaranteed to have basic competence at playing real chess.
  - cheepin 12y ago
    On a sidenote, there are 5 year-olds within spitting distance of "basic competence" in chess. http://www.chess.com/forum/view/scholastic-chess/benjamin-hamp-highest-rated-5-year-old-by-uscf http://www.chess.com/forum/view/scholastic-chess/benjamin-ha...
- gregd 12y ago
danbruc 12y ago
When I did my last Microsoft certification I could have easily passed without having any clue by just memorizing all the questions and answers. However I don't know if today's exams are any different than 3 or 4 years ago or if this one is substantially different from .NET certification exams.
- MiddleEndian 12y ago
  Lots of certification tests can be passed like this. The driver's permit test in Massachusetts (at least the one I took), can be passed by choosing the largest number that isn't an outlier for fine-based questions, and by knowing a stop sign is an octagon.

Not to take anything away from this (obviously) smart kid, but this is exactly why less emphasis should be placed on particular "certifications".

by gregd 12y ago

Not to take anything away from this (obviously) smart kid, but this is exactly why less emphasis should be placed on particular "certifications".

ceejayoz 12y ago

Why? If a five year old can run a marathon, does that suddenly mean completing one isn't much work?

Cuuugi 12y ago
His point is they aren't the same difficulty. Microsoft has hundreds of tests. Your metaphor doesn't work. Good for him regardless.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  > His point is they aren't the same difficulty. His point is not borne out by one data point.
smeyer 12y ago
It doesn't mean the certification (or marathon, or whatever) is intrinsically easier than it was before, but it does mean you may have been overestimating it.
- cwyers 12y ago
  I don't know as that's true, any more than some child prodigy grand master means I've been overestimating chess.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  If lots of five year olds were completing it, perhaps. One isn't conclusive evidence of any level of difficulty. Five year old Mozart could compose music in a way most adults can't - that hardly means composing is easy.
murbard2 12y ago
It depends how confident you are that running a marathon is difficult. If I tell you that a five year old ran a marathon, that's one impressive five year old. If I tell you that I organize a whacky foot race every summer and that a five year old finished it last year, my whacky foot race is probably not very challenging. A priori, I don't really know how hard Microsoft certficiation is, and I don't know how talented this five year old is. But reading the article tells me that he is probably quite talented, and that Microsoft certification is probably not that challenging.
- ryanisnan 12y ago
  So... Microsoft certification is somewhere between a marathon and a wacky foot race? Maybe like an endurance potato sack race? I can't get the thought of Microsoft's certification exams having some wacky foot race component now, and damn would I love to do that.
pizza234 12y ago
It's a tricky subject, but the Microsoft exams (and such format, more in general) are not meaningful (I've passed several). They're mostly based on memorizing dialogs, messages and arcane rules, with little space for (domain) reasoning. This can be argued of many types of exams of course, but this type of certifications are much more based on this type of "knowledge". In addition to that, preparation for this exams can be cheated by finding (widespread) packages/books which include the exact questions one will find. Any person which doesn't understand anything about computers but have a good memory, will pass it. Of course, it's notable that a child has such capacity, but given the nature of the test, it's nothing noteworthy.

ghshephard 12y ago

That isn't logical. You are being ageist, and suggesting that because a five year old was capable of acquiring a certification, that the certification has less value. It's also entirely possible that this incredible kid is supremely skilled, and would do a great job configuring your network/IT system. Put another way - if I can find you a five year old ranked 1200 on the ELO system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_system) (the equivalent of "Basic Competence" in chess) - does that say more about the ELO system, or the five year old?

GeneralMayhem 12y ago
Bad analogy. ELO isn't really a rating system, it's a ranking system. In order to be ranked 1200, you have to be able to beat people ranked below 1200. A 5 year old being rated highly (and I'd believe there are 5 year olds significantly above 1200) against adults proves by definition that he's extraordinary on an adult scale. Microsoft certs, on the other hand, are fixed. It's possible (although unlikely) that they're passable by someone at a 4 year old level.
mikeash 12y ago
The difference is that the ELO score is determined by measuring exactly the same thing that the score is meant to indicate: competence in chess. Whereas a Microsoft certificate is supposed to indicate competence at various real-world IT tasks, but there's no direct link between the two. It's likely that this five-year-old would not be able to perform effectively in the professional capacity that this test is supposed to be for. Whereas a five-year-old with a 1200 ELO score is guaranteed to have basic competence at playing real chess.
- cheepin 12y ago
  On a sidenote, there are 5 year-olds within spitting distance of "basic competence" in chess. http://www.chess.com/forum/view/scholastic-chess/benjamin-hamp-highest-rated-5-year-old-by-uscf http://www.chess.com/forum/view/scholastic-chess/benjamin-ha...
gregd 12y ago

danbruc 12y ago

When I did my last Microsoft certification I could have easily passed without having any clue by just memorizing all the questions and answers. However I don't know if today's exams are any different than 3 or 4 years ago or if this one is substantially different from .NET certification exams.

MiddleEndian 12y ago
Lots of certification tests can be passed like this. The driver's permit test in Massachusetts (at least the one I took), can be passed by choosing the largest number that isn't an outlier for fine-based questions, and by knowing a stop sign is an octagon.