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Yes, do make your own framework. And don't leave any documentation either. Hell, invent your own language while you're at it. It'll make the "should we throw t

by al2o3cr 12y ago

Yes, do make your own framework. And don't leave any documentation either. Hell, invent your own language while you're at it. It'll make the "should we throw this code out" discussion WAAAAY easier in five years.

PavlovsCat 12y ago
I wrote plenty of things nobody but me will ever use, and I'm happy I reinvented lots of wheels along the way. I learned, I had fun, and I still like the results. Not all programming has to take place in a corporate cog-style environment, and not all articles about programming have to justify themselves in that environment, or for sites with millions of visitors. If it's not good for your job, don't use it for your job, and let me do what I want in my free time. If I was a better programmer, I would insert a snarky question about who will program the frameworks of the future if nobody knows how to do anything from "scratch" anymore. I'm just glad we're not that stuck up about HTML and CSS: sure semantic clean things are nice, but nobody would honestly say "god no, don't EVER Write your own CSS, use Bootstrap and tweak the options! It's just too hard, too many things can go wrong." I can see that with crypto, but a "web framework"? Nah. It's more a hello world thing, nothing to freak out over.
- wmil 12y ago
  Writing a custom framework is cruel to the maintenance programmers down the line. Whoever works the project after you is stuck with a buggy undocumented framework.
  - PavlovsCat 12y ago
    Maintenance programmers solely dictating what is cool or allowed is cruel to all programmers everywhere. This is right at the start of my post: > things nobody but me will ever use Plus, I imagine I'll rewrite for example my CMS from scratch and/or in a different language every 5-10 years either way, taking a good hard look at what I really ended up needing, and how to best structure it. If I ever used a framework for that, I'd end up forking it and throwing out the 90% things it has which I don't need, cutting out redundant layers of indirection etc., and then what? The next version of the framework comes out, and I do it again? Or I just give up and just take on the bloat? Nah. Not worth it for me.
nkozyra 12y ago
As I mentioned in my comment above, there's a lot of value in doing this (and in writing your own language) if only for an understanding of how to do such things. There is of course a huge leap between implementing and formalizing parts of a pre-built net/http package in Go and writing a well-designed language with a quality lexer/parser, but the idea is the same. Assuming you're not doing it to be your standard live environment language/framework of choice, it's a valuable process for learning. If everyone took the :scoff: "don't write a framework, we already have them" approach it's true we'd have a lot fewer shitty frameworks. But we'd also have a lot fewer good ones.

by al2o3cr 12y ago

PavlovsCat 12y ago

I wrote plenty of things nobody but me will ever use, and I'm happy I reinvented lots of wheels along the way. I learned, I had fun, and I still like the results. Not all programming has to take place in a corporate cog-style environment, and not all articles about programming have to justify themselves in that environment, or for sites with millions of visitors. If it's not good for your job, don't use it for your job, and let me do what I want in my free time. If I was a better programmer, I would insert a snarky question about who will program the frameworks of the future if nobody knows how to do anything from "scratch" anymore. I'm just glad we're not that stuck up about HTML and CSS: sure semantic clean things are nice, but nobody would honestly say "god no, don't EVER Write your own CSS, use Bootstrap and tweak the options! It's just too hard, too many things can go wrong." I can see that with crypto, but a "web framework"? Nah. It's more a hello world thing, nothing to freak out over.

wmil 12y ago
Writing a custom framework is cruel to the maintenance programmers down the line. Whoever works the project after you is stuck with a buggy undocumented framework.
- PavlovsCat 12y ago
  Maintenance programmers solely dictating what is cool or allowed is cruel to all programmers everywhere. This is right at the start of my post: > things nobody but me will ever use Plus, I imagine I'll rewrite for example my CMS from scratch and/or in a different language every 5-10 years either way, taking a good hard look at what I really ended up needing, and how to best structure it. If I ever used a framework for that, I'd end up forking it and throwing out the 90% things it has which I don't need, cutting out redundant layers of indirection etc., and then what? The next version of the framework comes out, and I do it again? Or I just give up and just take on the bloat? Nah. Not worth it for me.

nkozyra 12y ago

As I mentioned in my comment above, there's a lot of value in doing this (and in writing your own language) if only for an understanding of how to do such things. There is of course a huge leap between implementing and formalizing parts of a pre-built net/http package in Go and writing a well-designed language with a quality lexer/parser, but the idea is the same. Assuming you're not doing it to be your standard live environment language/framework of choice, it's a valuable process for learning. If everyone took the :scoff: "don't write a framework, we already have them" approach it's true we'd have a lot fewer shitty frameworks. But we'd also have a lot fewer good ones.