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You would likely go to federal prison, you would not be given a fair trial (a judge would sentence you in a secret court). The only reason Ladar Levison (the L

You would likely go to federal prison, you would not be given a fair trial (a judge would sentence you in a secret court). The only reason Ladar Levison (the Lavabit guy) is a free man right now is because the guardian picked up his story before the FBI could toss his ass in a black SUV. He got lucky.

rayiner 12y ago
Source on secret court is handing out jail sentences? The whole "secret court" thing is FUD. The FISA "secret court" was created by law to insert itself into a process that didn't require a court proceeding in the first place. It's not empowered to adjudicate peoples' rights and obligations.
- jgeorge 12y ago
  I still don't think I'd like to be the person to test that.
  - kabdib 12y ago
    See? The system works! /snark
- talmand 12y ago
  No source on handing out jail sentences, but I would bet you would get one if you defied it since you would be defying the law. Which would be when someone from the Justice Department would knock on your door. I would agree it's not quite the same thing. As for "secret court" that you put in "scary" quotes. Just to be sure, no one says secret as in no one knows it exists, but that the public is not allowed to know what it does. Which is not FUD, some of us see that as a clear problem.
  - rayiner 12y ago
    It is definitely FUD to say "a judge would sentence you in a secret court." And we know what the FISA court does--it reviews requests by intelligence agencies to engage in foreign surveillance, as provided for by the FISA Amendments Act. It does not put people in jail. The biggest misunderstanding about the FISA court, a misunderstanding rooted in FUD, is that it has the powers of an ordinary court and uses them in secret. But unlike a regular federal court, a FISA court cannot adjudicate your rights and obligations. What Congress did by creating the FISA court was to insert the judicial branch into a process, foreign surveillance, that, Constitutionally, does not require judicial branch involvement. Its proceedings can be secret only because it does not exercise the normal power of the judicial branch to determine peoples' legal rights.
    - talmand 12y ago
      Ok, I'll try again. Yes, we know about the FISA courts. Yes, we know what they are mandated to do. Yes, we know they work with intelligence agencies. The problem, as I see it, is the secret of exactly what they are doing in terms of American people and/or businesses that require they place gag orders on nearly everything they do. I wouldn't say that they "sentence" people as in a normal court of law, but what happens if you defy one of their orders? If I were to ignore their gag orders then they'll just say "oh well, too bad for us"? The reason we don't know what happens in that case is because, as far as I know, no one has openly defied the orders. Notice I said the Justice Department, not FISA, knocks on your door. Saying this court throws people into secret prisons via secret orders enabled by secret laws is, of course, FUD. But then, I'm not saying any of that at all.

rayiner 12y ago

Source on secret court is handing out jail sentences? The whole "secret court" thing is FUD. The FISA "secret court" was created by law to insert itself into a process that didn't require a court proceeding in the first place. It's not empowered to adjudicate peoples' rights and obligations.

jgeorge 12y ago
I still don't think I'd like to be the person to test that.
- kabdib 12y ago
  See? The system works! /snark
talmand 12y ago
No source on handing out jail sentences, but I would bet you would get one if you defied it since you would be defying the law. Which would be when someone from the Justice Department would knock on your door. I would agree it's not quite the same thing. As for "secret court" that you put in "scary" quotes. Just to be sure, no one says secret as in no one knows it exists, but that the public is not allowed to know what it does. Which is not FUD, some of us see that as a clear problem.
- rayiner 12y ago
  It is definitely FUD to say "a judge would sentence you in a secret court." And we know what the FISA court does--it reviews requests by intelligence agencies to engage in foreign surveillance, as provided for by the FISA Amendments Act. It does not put people in jail. The biggest misunderstanding about the FISA court, a misunderstanding rooted in FUD, is that it has the powers of an ordinary court and uses them in secret. But unlike a regular federal court, a FISA court cannot adjudicate your rights and obligations. What Congress did by creating the FISA court was to insert the judicial branch into a process, foreign surveillance, that, Constitutionally, does not require judicial branch involvement. Its proceedings can be secret only because it does not exercise the normal power of the judicial branch to determine peoples' legal rights.
  - talmand 12y ago
    Ok, I'll try again. Yes, we know about the FISA courts. Yes, we know what they are mandated to do. Yes, we know they work with intelligence agencies. The problem, as I see it, is the secret of exactly what they are doing in terms of American people and/or businesses that require they place gag orders on nearly everything they do. I wouldn't say that they "sentence" people as in a normal court of law, but what happens if you defy one of their orders? If I were to ignore their gag orders then they'll just say "oh well, too bad for us"? The reason we don't know what happens in that case is because, as far as I know, no one has openly defied the orders. Notice I said the Justice Department, not FISA, knocks on your door. Saying this court throws people into secret prisons via secret orders enabled by secret laws is, of course, FUD. But then, I'm not saying any of that at all.