4 ms·

Heh. I love the conceit that anyone would believe Wong resigned only over "location and amount of money to spend on a lease". Previously from @sama: "Yishan W

by zorpner 12y ago

Heh. I love the conceit that anyone would believe Wong resigned only over "location and amount of money to spend on a lease". Previously from @sama: "Yishan Wong has a big vision for what reddit can be. I’m excited to watch it play out. " (http://blog.samaltman.com/reddit http://blog.samaltman.com/reddit)

eco 12y ago
I can believe it. Yishan always seemed very dramatic and reactionary. I could see him resigning in anger after not getting his way.
- minimaxir 12y ago
  Relevant context: https://np.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2iea97/i_am_a_former_reddit_employee_ama/cl1ygat?context=3 https://np.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2iea97/i_am_a_former_r... From the NYT: "That incident, according to people close to the company, made some of Reddit’s current employees uncomfortable."
  - paulhauggis 12y ago
    He was being honest and I actually respect him more for putting a former employee that obviously was trying to get sympathy from the Reddit community, in his place.
    - Cookingboy 12y ago
      Was he being completely honest? It was really a case of his words against another's words, and we don't know which parts were true or half-true or plain lies, from either party.
    - reduce 12y ago
      Reddit is a magnet for people who have an unhealthy appetite for over dramatic "justice porn." That's all I'm going to say about your feelings.
      - serve_yay 12y ago
        No kidding.
    - BinaryIdiot 12y ago
      No this is not something to respect someone for. This is unprofessional and a liability; if anything Yishan said wasn't documented and documented really well the OP has a libel case. It doesn't even matter how true it was. He also publicly spoke out about someone's work ethic and performance of which we're only getting one side of the story anyway. If his real name is associated with his reddit profile then future employers will see the CEO of a public internet company lambasting him. Whether it's deserved or not at the time is irrelevant; there are plenty of people who, for one reason or another, do terrible at a job and later are highly valued. This could ruin any attempt at redemption.
      - turnip1979 12y ago
        Total outsider and I felt very uncomfortable how the dirty laundry was being aired publicly. I don't get this new model of business in the Bay area. One person posts stuff online. Then someone posts something online as a rebuttal. Don't these people realize stuff online stays with you forever and has consequences? Heck .. I change accounts every little while on HN (losing all my precious karma) to make sure I don't mess up in some way.
        bane 12y ago
        > Don't these people realize stuff online stays with you forever and has consequences? I call it "thinking with your tattoos". People simply aren't cognizant that decisions and actions have long-term consequences. You may really want that tattoo on your face, but it will make you virtually unemployable for the rest of your life. They're simply unable to project out complex interactions of consequences, their brain simply can't do the calculus or views it as overstimulus or something simply filters out everything to do with long-term planning and executive function.
      - stream_fusion 12y ago
        CEO exercised right-of-reply to potentially tortious statements from the employee. Also public interest.
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
    - metaphorm 12y ago
      I thought that was one of the most unprofessional and disrespectful things I've ever seen any CEO do. It was childish and rash and deeply unfair given the huge power asymmetry between a CEO and a former employee.
    - imgabe 12y ago
      "putting someone in their place" and "wise public statement from company executive" rarely go together.
    - LordHumungous 12y ago
      In a situation like this don't trust the manager to have an unbiased take on the matter anymore than the employee. I've known bosses who disliked an employee for personal reasons and managed to convince themselves that the employee was lazy/incompetent/whatever else as a justification for firing them.
  - mcfunley 12y ago
    That was a thoroughly classless move on his part. The reddit or HN community might eat that kind of thing up, but it's recruiting poison. Anyone contemplating taking a job at reddit would have to think twice about working for someone who would permanently and capriciously destroy the SEO of a former employee like that.
    - prostoalex 12y ago
      How would you handle somebody who, after being let go, would use a public forum to besmirch the previous employer? E.g., here he calls the company management "two-faced" https://np.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2iea97/i_am_a_former_reddit_employee_ama/cl1gdyx https://np.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2iea97/i_am_a_former_r... Companies have to act and usually act quickly, handling a public issue privately, no matter how successfully, would leave a lingering impression of "Yahoo hires just about anyone with a fake diploma" or "Uber drivers beat up passengers with hammers as often as they please".
      - mcfunley 12y ago
        Practically any other way. Responding as he did shows an incredible lack of judgement that shouldn't be tolerated in any employee, let alone the CEO. The response lacks all proportionality. A former employee is saying mildly critical things about you in a public forum? Ok, I don't think anyone is really going to mistake that kind of rumormongering for gospel. Destroying that person's future employment prospects from on high is not only unnecessarily cruel, it also creates a story where there wasn't one before. We never would have heard about the thread if he hadn't done this. It certainly never would have made the mainstream news. He could have said nothing. He could have sent the employee a private legal warning. Or he could have posted a nice non-response to indicate that they saw the thread, but as a company staffed by adults Reddit is above that kind of name-calling. He did the opposite and looked like a child. In addition to being really poor form, his response very likely opens the company up to a lawsuit. If I were the besmirched fired employee, god forbid, I would immediately be contacting an employment attorney.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
  - serve_yay 12y ago
    Yikes!!
  - stream_fusion 12y ago
    The context, is a spill-the-beans IAMA from a disgruntled ex-employee provocatively made on reddit itself. The CEO has a right-of-reply and a duty to protect the reputation of the company against accusations, and he fairly exercised that right. There was no slanging match, and the response consisted of a single post amongst hundreds in that thread. I don't see a problem with having both positions made public after the ex-employee initiated the public confrontation. As always The truth is probably going to lie somewhere in the middle.
- jrochkind1 12y ago
  > Although my 8 days as the CEO of reddit have been sort of fun Sounds like he didn't give any notice at all, and they had to scramble for a new CEO? Is resigning (or being fired?) with no notice typical for CEO positions?
  - BinaryIdiot 12y ago
    I hope not. Then again I recently learned many resign via email instead of in person. I feel like an old person now.
  - justinv 12y ago
    This is very confusing to me. I'd say that maybe that's typical for other situations, but resigning effective immediately because the offices wouldn't be moved sounds very, very odd. I would be really disappointed if a CEO left day-of rather than at least allow a transition period where a lead investor didn't have to step in. (Unless it was the board that wanted him gone asap?)
onewaystreet 12y ago
Wong didn't want to move the company to SF. The board did. That's no small thing to disagree on.
- zorpner 12y ago
  I could absolutely believe that, and if it's the case that's what should have been said, not some technically-correct-but-obviously-downplayed pablum that insults the intelligence of every reader.
  - cpeterso 12y ago
    The disagreement about "location and amount of money to spend on a lease" sounds like code for "disagreement on whether we need an SF office big enough to consolidate all our remote workers or not."
- kickme444 12y ago
  This is 100% not true. Yishan wanted the team to move to the same location and the board supported him. This was a question of office location, not centralizing.
  - cpeterso 12y ago
    What about the office location was so contentious that the CEO would quit?
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - gojomo 12y ago
      Generally such a resignation is about being-overruled (board no-confidence), rather than just the particulars of one decision. With ~sama's revelation that Wong preferred a Daly City HQ, the battle-lines could have been: Pro-Daly-City: "more space, cheaper, less-cool, longer-runway, more employees who've self-selected for willingness to do Reddit muckwork vs. glamorous SoMa networking, outsider perspective" Pro-SF: "continuity with current employees, top talent prefers SF, worth the extra cost/cost-of-living, more transit links, closer to other media/advertising"
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Having a PR drone respond on Reddit would be like throwing yourself into a river full of piranhas. The response was appropriate based on the culture of the community (i.e. "no bullshit").
  - humanrebar 12y ago
    > ...based on the culture of the community (i.e. "no bullshit"). I didn't realize Reddit has the same culture as Bill O'Reilly. In all seriousness, the Reddit culture is "only my bullshit", just like any "no spin", "no bias", "no B.S.", "straight talk", etc. community/person out there.
    - sanskritabelt 12y ago
      Aren't the reddit demographics, like O'Reilly, 'richer, whiter, older'? (also kinda racist and sexist, so that's more points of convergence).
- apetresc 12y ago
  Earlier in this _exact same thread_, literally 100 pixels above your comment, someone called the PR-speak "pablum that insults the intelligence of every reader." Shift your eyes down a bit, and Yishan should have let the PR drone respond. Nobody agrees on this sort of stuff. It shouldn't be anything anyone gets fired over.
jmtame 12y ago
I can say firsthand that company location is a much bigger deal than you'd imagine. Some people don't care, but others are extremely opinionated about it.

by zorpner 12y ago

eco 12y ago

I can believe it. Yishan always seemed very dramatic and reactionary. I could see him resigning in anger after not getting his way.

minimaxir 12y ago
Relevant context: https://np.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2iea97/i_am_a_former_reddit_employee_ama/cl1ygat?context=3 https://np.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2iea97/i_am_a_former_r... From the NYT: "That incident, according to people close to the company, made some of Reddit’s current employees uncomfortable."
- paulhauggis 12y ago
  He was being honest and I actually respect him more for putting a former employee that obviously was trying to get sympathy from the Reddit community, in his place.
  - Cookingboy 12y ago
    Was he being completely honest? It was really a case of his words against another's words, and we don't know which parts were true or half-true or plain lies, from either party.
  - reduce 12y ago
    Reddit is a magnet for people who have an unhealthy appetite for over dramatic "justice porn." That's all I'm going to say about your feelings.
    - serve_yay 12y ago
      No kidding.
  - BinaryIdiot 12y ago
    No this is not something to respect someone for. This is unprofessional and a liability; if anything Yishan said wasn't documented and documented really well the OP has a libel case. It doesn't even matter how true it was. He also publicly spoke out about someone's work ethic and performance of which we're only getting one side of the story anyway. If his real name is associated with his reddit profile then future employers will see the CEO of a public internet company lambasting him. Whether it's deserved or not at the time is irrelevant; there are plenty of people who, for one reason or another, do terrible at a job and later are highly valued. This could ruin any attempt at redemption.
    - turnip1979 12y ago
      Total outsider and I felt very uncomfortable how the dirty laundry was being aired publicly. I don't get this new model of business in the Bay area. One person posts stuff online. Then someone posts something online as a rebuttal. Don't these people realize stuff online stays with you forever and has consequences? Heck .. I change accounts every little while on HN (losing all my precious karma) to make sure I don't mess up in some way.
      - bane 12y ago
        > Don't these people realize stuff online stays with you forever and has consequences? I call it "thinking with your tattoos". People simply aren't cognizant that decisions and actions have long-term consequences. You may really want that tattoo on your face, but it will make you virtually unemployable for the rest of your life. They're simply unable to project out complex interactions of consequences, their brain simply can't do the calculus or views it as overstimulus or something simply filters out everything to do with long-term planning and executive function.
    - stream_fusion 12y ago
      CEO exercised right-of-reply to potentially tortious statements from the employee. Also public interest.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
  - metaphorm 12y ago
    I thought that was one of the most unprofessional and disrespectful things I've ever seen any CEO do. It was childish and rash and deeply unfair given the huge power asymmetry between a CEO and a former employee.
  - imgabe 12y ago
    "putting someone in their place" and "wise public statement from company executive" rarely go together.
  - LordHumungous 12y ago
    In a situation like this don't trust the manager to have an unbiased take on the matter anymore than the employee. I've known bosses who disliked an employee for personal reasons and managed to convince themselves that the employee was lazy/incompetent/whatever else as a justification for firing them.
- mcfunley 12y ago
  That was a thoroughly classless move on his part. The reddit or HN community might eat that kind of thing up, but it's recruiting poison. Anyone contemplating taking a job at reddit would have to think twice about working for someone who would permanently and capriciously destroy the SEO of a former employee like that.
  - prostoalex 12y ago
    How would you handle somebody who, after being let go, would use a public forum to besmirch the previous employer? E.g., here he calls the company management "two-faced" https://np.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2iea97/i_am_a_former_reddit_employee_ama/cl1gdyx https://np.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2iea97/i_am_a_former_r... Companies have to act and usually act quickly, handling a public issue privately, no matter how successfully, would leave a lingering impression of "Yahoo hires just about anyone with a fake diploma" or "Uber drivers beat up passengers with hammers as often as they please".
    - mcfunley 12y ago
      Practically any other way. Responding as he did shows an incredible lack of judgement that shouldn't be tolerated in any employee, let alone the CEO. The response lacks all proportionality. A former employee is saying mildly critical things about you in a public forum? Ok, I don't think anyone is really going to mistake that kind of rumormongering for gospel. Destroying that person's future employment prospects from on high is not only unnecessarily cruel, it also creates a story where there wasn't one before. We never would have heard about the thread if he hadn't done this. It certainly never would have made the mainstream news. He could have said nothing. He could have sent the employee a private legal warning. Or he could have posted a nice non-response to indicate that they saw the thread, but as a company staffed by adults Reddit is above that kind of name-calling. He did the opposite and looked like a child. In addition to being really poor form, his response very likely opens the company up to a lawsuit. If I were the besmirched fired employee, god forbid, I would immediately be contacting an employment attorney.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- serve_yay 12y ago
  Yikes!!
- stream_fusion 12y ago
  The context, is a spill-the-beans IAMA from a disgruntled ex-employee provocatively made on reddit itself. The CEO has a right-of-reply and a duty to protect the reputation of the company against accusations, and he fairly exercised that right. There was no slanging match, and the response consisted of a single post amongst hundreds in that thread. I don't see a problem with having both positions made public after the ex-employee initiated the public confrontation. As always The truth is probably going to lie somewhere in the middle.
jrochkind1 12y ago
> Although my 8 days as the CEO of reddit have been sort of fun Sounds like he didn't give any notice at all, and they had to scramble for a new CEO? Is resigning (or being fired?) with no notice typical for CEO positions?
- BinaryIdiot 12y ago
  I hope not. Then again I recently learned many resign via email instead of in person. I feel like an old person now.
- justinv 12y ago
  This is very confusing to me. I'd say that maybe that's typical for other situations, but resigning effective immediately because the offices wouldn't be moved sounds very, very odd. I would be really disappointed if a CEO left day-of rather than at least allow a transition period where a lead investor didn't have to step in. (Unless it was the board that wanted him gone asap?)

onewaystreet 12y ago

Wong didn't want to move the company to SF. The board did. That's no small thing to disagree on.

zorpner 12y ago
I could absolutely believe that, and if it's the case that's what should have been said, not some technically-correct-but-obviously-downplayed pablum that insults the intelligence of every reader.
- cpeterso 12y ago
  The disagreement about "location and amount of money to spend on a lease" sounds like code for "disagreement on whether we need an SF office big enough to consolidate all our remote workers or not."
kickme444 12y ago
This is 100% not true. Yishan wanted the team to move to the same location and the board supported him. This was a question of office location, not centralizing.
- cpeterso 12y ago
  What about the office location was so contentious that the CEO would quit?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - gojomo 12y ago
    Generally such a resignation is about being-overruled (board no-confidence), rather than just the particulars of one decision. With ~sama's revelation that Wong preferred a Daly City HQ, the battle-lines could have been: Pro-Daly-City: "more space, cheaper, less-cool, longer-runway, more employees who've self-selected for willingness to do Reddit muckwork vs. glamorous SoMa networking, outsider perspective" Pro-SF: "continuity with current employees, top talent prefers SF, worth the extra cost/cost-of-living, more transit links, closer to other media/advertising"

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

toomuchtodo 12y ago
Having a PR drone respond on Reddit would be like throwing yourself into a river full of piranhas. The response was appropriate based on the culture of the community (i.e. "no bullshit").
- humanrebar 12y ago
  > ...based on the culture of the community (i.e. "no bullshit"). I didn't realize Reddit has the same culture as Bill O'Reilly. In all seriousness, the Reddit culture is "only my bullshit", just like any "no spin", "no bias", "no B.S.", "straight talk", etc. community/person out there.
  - sanskritabelt 12y ago
    Aren't the reddit demographics, like O'Reilly, 'richer, whiter, older'? (also kinda racist and sexist, so that's more points of convergence).
apetresc 12y ago
Earlier in this _exact same thread_, literally 100 pixels above your comment, someone called the PR-speak "pablum that insults the intelligence of every reader." Shift your eyes down a bit, and Yishan should have let the PR drone respond. Nobody agrees on this sort of stuff. It shouldn't be anything anyone gets fired over.

jmtame 12y ago

I can say firsthand that company location is a much bigger deal than you'd imagine. Some people don't care, but others are extremely opinionated about it.