5 ms·

Good for Harvard, but unfortunately the same money could go a lot farther and help a lot more students at lower tier universities. University of Southern Maine

Good for Harvard, but unfortunately the same money could go a lot farther and help a lot more students at lower tier universities. University of Southern Maine recently cut its CS faculty in half, from six to three right in the middle of the academic year in a desperate bid to save money. Public universities across the country are suffering from 15 years of near-annual cuts to state subsidies. Harvard would survive and even thrive without donations like Ballmer's, but I'm not sure about the tier of higher education that serves the vast majority of college students.

LLWM 12y ago
Then those universities should try to produce prosperous alumni who will donate to them. Harvard is getting this because Ballmer recognizes their contributions to his success. Rewarding poor performers only incentivizes mediocrity.
melling 12y ago
Then raise some money for Maine and quit telling other people what to do with their money. If the United States requires a few benevolent rich people to give money to keep the public system working then something is seriously wrong. Everyone here pays fewer taxes than their European counterparts, for example. Raise taxes in Maine.
- geebee 12y ago
  Harvard (and other private colleges) enjoy a tax exempt status where it comes to endowment growth, and private colleges are recipients of massive amounts of government research funds. Harvard enrolls a tiny undergraduate class, with an even tinier percentage of low income students (UC Berkeley enrolls more low income students than the entire ivy league combined). Interestingly, numbers of grad students are roughly the same at the two institutions. I'm pleased that Ballmer is giving money to support more research, but I don't have a problem with asking what society is getting in return for that massive tax break and colossal infusion of public funding. The answer, to me, is: quite a lot. Harvard's contributions to research are remarkable, and the world is better for it. But I think it's reasonable to question such a favored tax status and high level of public funding for a university that keeps its undergraduate enrollment so low (especially for low income students).
  - melling 12y ago
    Can you provide me links with some facts? Is Harvard that much different than Princeton, Stanford, Columbia or Yale? Why are you comparing the big state school model with the Ivy model? Probably every big state school enrolls more low-income students than any Ivy league school. And shouldn't government research money go to the schools with the best research? I checked and Harvard isn't in the top 10: http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/04/25/universities-getting-the-most-government-money/ http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/04/25/universities-... A few Ivy Schools for comparison. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/harvard-university-2155?int=d1415b http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/... http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/94/opinions_college08_Yale-University_94568.html http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/94/opinions_college08_Yale-... http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/princeton-university-2627?int=d1415b http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/... http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/stanford-1305?int=d1415b http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/... http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/columbia-university-2707?int=d1415b http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/...
makmanalp 12y ago
I guess the question is whether you want to help the field more or help students more. It seems to be more cost efficient to put money to a top tier institution that attracts top faculty if you want to advance the field more - this is just a consequence of the way academia works. Credentials seem to matter immensely to many academics, and as a hypothetical situation: choosing Harvard working on things they care less about seems to be much more orthodox an attitude than choosing a provincial university working on things they care about. USM probably won't attract top faculty at the same rate as Harvard and thus won't advance the field as much, at least until it gains a reputation in the research world. Of course without funding that's even less possible, which is a crappy vicious cycle, so there's that.
pkulak 12y ago
He also donated the the University of Oregon for obesity research and general scholarships. Considering that's the top killer in most industrialized countries (obesity, not scholarships), it's tough to find fault there. I don't think he's putting all his eggs in one basket. Once again, the top comment on a HN post is critical. No matter what it is; even donating huge sums of money to universities.
- geebee 12y ago
  I get your frustration with the critical post going to the top. And I agree with you that a huge sum donated to a top university for research is a good thing. I am also more sympathetic to the people who are critical. We are talking about $50 million more for a university that has a massive tax exempt endowment, that enrolls relatively few undergraduates, and has come under fire recently (along with all elite colleges) for having a relatively low percentage of low income students. I think it's ok to point this out, though I would also be careful to emphasize that the donation is a good thing (and that research budgets can be different from general support for undergraduates). Also, my understanding is that Microsoft has been very generous with UW.

LLWM 12y ago

Then those universities should try to produce prosperous alumni who will donate to them. Harvard is getting this because Ballmer recognizes their contributions to his success. Rewarding poor performers only incentivizes mediocrity.

melling 12y ago

Then raise some money for Maine and quit telling other people what to do with their money. If the United States requires a few benevolent rich people to give money to keep the public system working then something is seriously wrong. Everyone here pays fewer taxes than their European counterparts, for example. Raise taxes in Maine.

geebee 12y ago
Harvard (and other private colleges) enjoy a tax exempt status where it comes to endowment growth, and private colleges are recipients of massive amounts of government research funds. Harvard enrolls a tiny undergraduate class, with an even tinier percentage of low income students (UC Berkeley enrolls more low income students than the entire ivy league combined). Interestingly, numbers of grad students are roughly the same at the two institutions. I'm pleased that Ballmer is giving money to support more research, but I don't have a problem with asking what society is getting in return for that massive tax break and colossal infusion of public funding. The answer, to me, is: quite a lot. Harvard's contributions to research are remarkable, and the world is better for it. But I think it's reasonable to question such a favored tax status and high level of public funding for a university that keeps its undergraduate enrollment so low (especially for low income students).
- melling 12y ago
  Can you provide me links with some facts? Is Harvard that much different than Princeton, Stanford, Columbia or Yale? Why are you comparing the big state school model with the Ivy model? Probably every big state school enrolls more low-income students than any Ivy league school. And shouldn't government research money go to the schools with the best research? I checked and Harvard isn't in the top 10: http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/04/25/universities-getting-the-most-government-money/ http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/04/25/universities-... A few Ivy Schools for comparison. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/harvard-university-2155?int=d1415b http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/... http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/94/opinions_college08_Yale-University_94568.html http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/94/opinions_college08_Yale-... http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/princeton-university-2627?int=d1415b http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/... http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/stanford-1305?int=d1415b http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/... http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/columbia-university-2707?int=d1415b http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/...

makmanalp 12y ago

I guess the question is whether you want to help the field more or help students more. It seems to be more cost efficient to put money to a top tier institution that attracts top faculty if you want to advance the field more - this is just a consequence of the way academia works. Credentials seem to matter immensely to many academics, and as a hypothetical situation: choosing Harvard working on things they care less about seems to be much more orthodox an attitude than choosing a provincial university working on things they care about. USM probably won't attract top faculty at the same rate as Harvard and thus won't advance the field as much, at least until it gains a reputation in the research world. Of course without funding that's even less possible, which is a crappy vicious cycle, so there's that.

pkulak 12y ago

He also donated the the University of Oregon for obesity research and general scholarships. Considering that's the top killer in most industrialized countries (obesity, not scholarships), it's tough to find fault there. I don't think he's putting all his eggs in one basket. Once again, the top comment on a HN post is critical. No matter what it is; even donating huge sums of money to universities.

geebee 12y ago
I get your frustration with the critical post going to the top. And I agree with you that a huge sum donated to a top university for research is a good thing. I am also more sympathetic to the people who are critical. We are talking about $50 million more for a university that has a massive tax exempt endowment, that enrolls relatively few undergraduates, and has come under fire recently (along with all elite colleges) for having a relatively low percentage of low income students. I think it's ok to point this out, though I would also be careful to emphasize that the donation is a good thing (and that research budgets can be different from general support for undergraduates). Also, my understanding is that Microsoft has been very generous with UW.