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So my disclaimer is that if I ever retired with a net worth in that neighborhood, I would also put the bulk of it to work combating poverty. That said, it's hi

So my disclaimer is that if I ever retired with a net worth in that neighborhood, I would also put the bulk of it to work combating poverty. That said, it's his money. He can spend as he sees fit and unless he sees clubbing baby seals or something equally morally reprehensible as his aim, who are we to take aim?

yequalsx 12y ago
In general I agree with you but with one caveat. Right now the very rich pay the lowest percent of their wealth in taxes in many decades. Taxation is the means by which society is able to make its desires known. I would agree wholeheartedly if the taxation was significantly greater than what it currently is int he U.S. (for the wealthy).
- refurb 12y ago
  Do you have a source? The data that I've seen shows that the very rich pay about the same effective rate as back in the '50s. The rates were higher in the '50s, but the exemptions were much more liberal.
  - melling 12y ago
    I was curious so I looked it up. According to this article the top 10% pay 68% of all taxes. http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-e...
    - foldr 12y ago
      That’s the wrong statistic. The question is whether, say, Bill Gates pays a greater or lesser percentage of his income in tax than someone earning 50K.
      - melling 12y ago
        Most of his income is probably from capital gains, which is only taxed at 15%. I think it's valid to point out very few individuals are paying a lot of the federal taxes.
        arjunnarayan 12y ago
        It's 23.8% now.
        foldr 12y ago
        Sure, it's valid to point it out, but it doesn't suggest any unfairness. You have to look at the percentage that each individual is contributing, and the super-rich do very well by that metric.
    - _gwint 12y ago
      Also, the Heritage Foundation is not exactly an unbiased source on this issue. Here's another take on U.S. taxation: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/tax-reform/news/2011/06/10/9751/ten-charts-that-prove-the-united-states-is-a-low-tax-country/ https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/tax-reform/news/2011...
      - melling 12y ago
        They simply choose to emphasize different numbers. The number is correct, right? That link that you posted says that all Americans pay low taxes. My question is shouldn't we all be paying a little more?
  - yequalsx 12y ago
    Here is a source that gives tax revenue as a percent of GDP. This includes all forms of tax. Given that the very wealthy increase their wealth primarily through capital gains and not through income and the capital gains tax is quite low it appears reasonable to conclude that the very wealthy are not overtaxed. This isn't exactly how I phrased my statement so I should revise it. I'll revise thusly, taxes in the United States are not high in comparison to historical standards and are certainly not high in comparison to wealthy countries. http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/a-tax-impact-from-grandpas-day http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/a-tax-impact-from-grand...
melling 12y ago
Why not try to combat poverty now? The hypothetical "if I were rich..." adds zero value to the world, and it's so easy to say.
- taylorwc 12y ago
  And I do. I donate regularly to several charities that are focused on poverty (both at a local and global level) and volunteer time at some of those. What my comment was meant to communicate is that if I had a substantially higher income/net worth, I'd be able to put a much higher portion of it to work doing that than I can right now, where more of my income has to go to a mortgage, car payments, and diapers.
wavefunction 12y ago
Clubbing baby seals and owning a basketball team are not in any common neighborhood of "morally reprehensible." I am ready and willing to "take aim" and go even farther to stop someone, if that someone is behaving sufficiently immorally. My threshold for acceptable and unacceptable generally falls on the issue of whether an individual is harming another living thing. Killing to eat is acceptable. Clubbing baby seals because you're a sadistic billionaire is not acceptable.
guelo 12y ago
Another option if you have a strong political ideology is to start buying a few election like the Koch brothers have. It's amazing how cheap the world's superpower is. At this point the only hope we have is for billionaires with competing ideologies to battle it out in the political arena.

yequalsx 12y ago

In general I agree with you but with one caveat. Right now the very rich pay the lowest percent of their wealth in taxes in many decades. Taxation is the means by which society is able to make its desires known. I would agree wholeheartedly if the taxation was significantly greater than what it currently is int he U.S. (for the wealthy).

refurb 12y ago
Do you have a source? The data that I've seen shows that the very rich pay about the same effective rate as back in the '50s. The rates were higher in the '50s, but the exemptions were much more liberal.
- melling 12y ago
  I was curious so I looked it up. According to this article the top 10% pay 68% of all taxes. http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-e...
  - foldr 12y ago
    That’s the wrong statistic. The question is whether, say, Bill Gates pays a greater or lesser percentage of his income in tax than someone earning 50K.
    - melling 12y ago
      Most of his income is probably from capital gains, which is only taxed at 15%. I think it's valid to point out very few individuals are paying a lot of the federal taxes.
      - arjunnarayan 12y ago
        It's 23.8% now.
      - foldr 12y ago
        Sure, it's valid to point it out, but it doesn't suggest any unfairness. You have to look at the percentage that each individual is contributing, and the super-rich do very well by that metric.
  - _gwint 12y ago
    Also, the Heritage Foundation is not exactly an unbiased source on this issue. Here's another take on U.S. taxation: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/tax-reform/news/2011/06/10/9751/ten-charts-that-prove-the-united-states-is-a-low-tax-country/ https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/tax-reform/news/2011...
    - melling 12y ago
      They simply choose to emphasize different numbers. The number is correct, right? That link that you posted says that all Americans pay low taxes. My question is shouldn't we all be paying a little more?
- yequalsx 12y ago
  Here is a source that gives tax revenue as a percent of GDP. This includes all forms of tax. Given that the very wealthy increase their wealth primarily through capital gains and not through income and the capital gains tax is quite low it appears reasonable to conclude that the very wealthy are not overtaxed. This isn't exactly how I phrased my statement so I should revise it. I'll revise thusly, taxes in the United States are not high in comparison to historical standards and are certainly not high in comparison to wealthy countries. http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/a-tax-impact-from-grandpas-day http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/a-tax-impact-from-grand...

melling 12y ago

Why not try to combat poverty now? The hypothetical "if I were rich..." adds zero value to the world, and it's so easy to say.

taylorwc 12y ago
And I do. I donate regularly to several charities that are focused on poverty (both at a local and global level) and volunteer time at some of those. What my comment was meant to communicate is that if I had a substantially higher income/net worth, I'd be able to put a much higher portion of it to work doing that than I can right now, where more of my income has to go to a mortgage, car payments, and diapers.

wavefunction 12y ago

Clubbing baby seals and owning a basketball team are not in any common neighborhood of "morally reprehensible." I am ready and willing to "take aim" and go even farther to stop someone, if that someone is behaving sufficiently immorally. My threshold for acceptable and unacceptable generally falls on the issue of whether an individual is harming another living thing. Killing to eat is acceptable. Clubbing baby seals because you're a sadistic billionaire is not acceptable.

guelo 12y ago

Another option if you have a strong political ideology is to start buying a few election like the Koch brothers have. It's amazing how cheap the world's superpower is. At this point the only hope we have is for billionaires with competing ideologies to battle it out in the political arena.