3 ms·

Does Iran even own the .ir TLD in the legal sense? I thought ICANN owned all TLDs and just assigned custodial administrators for registration, etc.

by debacle 12y ago

quonn 12y ago
What would that even mean? You can't own a database record. Nevertheless, a US court can certainly rule how ICANN has to operate. Most other national courts feel similar for "their" ccTLD and since the respective NIC is usually in the same country as the court they have to obey those rulings. Simply, ICANN defines the content of a database and it has self-imposed rules how it delegates part of that work to others. The rest of the world currently mirrors the database, but this might change if ICANN does something very stupid or is required to do so by others. In other words, it's about perceived power of various courts in what is actually a process based on global consensus.
- RubyPinch 12y ago
  how much can the rest of the world practically do though? only 3 of 13 root servers are outside of America's direct jurisdiction, and those servers splitting off would only cause confusing disarray, while America continues to be the main authority in the western world
  - psykovsky 12y ago
    > only 3 of 13 root servers are outside of America's direct jurisdiction Time to change that?
- pdabbadabba 12y ago
  > You can't own a database record. Well not when you put it that way. But you certainly can have a property interest in a database record's being updated or not updated in a certain way. Think of it this way: your money on deposit at the bank is "just" a database record -- either at the band itself or, less directly, at the Federal Reserve. And this is just one example. Plenty of assets ultimately reduce to a database entry on a computer somewhere.
thirdtruck 12y ago
That's a good question. As I understand it, taking control of the .ir domain from Iran would make as much sense as taking control of the street address of their embassy. Not the embassy or the property it sits on, mind you, but the address itself. If my interpretation is correct, then the absurdity of the plaintiff's request is obvious.
- pdabbadabba 12y ago
  I'm not sure the analogy holds up since a TLD is separable from the IP it points to and, thus, can have separate commercial value. There is really no way to do this (that I am aware of) with street addresses.
  - thirdtruck 12y ago
    Someone else (perhaps the EFF) made the point that the TLD's whole value is derived from how it points to Iran's IP addresses instead of anywhere else. Does this comparison make more sense? TLDs as a combination of a street address and the name of the business at the address; if either one is out of sync (e.g. the store moved), then the combination is worthless.
- astrodust 12y ago
  Is three any legal precedent for owning a street address? Isn't the postal service or municipality at liberty to renumber things as they see fit? I know several people that have had to "move", file change of address forms, even though they're in the same physical structure.
  - thirdtruck 12y ago
    The latter makes sense. At the same time, neither the postal service or municipalities have the liberty to say that Best Buy is at a given address when you'll actually find a Fry's. Well, they can claim it, but no one's going to believe them after they make the trip. I think that's the big difference: The Iran TLD isn't just "owned" by the country, the TLD is supposed to factually represent the location of the country's IPs. It's similar to how only government agencies or the like are supposed to have .gov domains.
jacquesm 12y ago
The relevant authority is IANA. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1591#section-4 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1591#section-4 And I don't think there is a 'clawback procedure'. I'm very curious what would have happened if this judge had actually sided with the plaintiffs. Possibly a re-run of January 28, 1998, but this time with teeth.

Does Iran even own the .ir TLD in the legal sense? I thought ICANN owned all TLDs and just assigned custodial administrators for registration, etc.

by debacle 12y ago

Does Iran even own the .ir TLD in the legal sense? I thought ICANN owned all TLDs and just assigned custodial administrators for registration, etc.

quonn 12y ago

What would that even mean? You can't own a database record. Nevertheless, a US court can certainly rule how ICANN has to operate. Most other national courts feel similar for "their" ccTLD and since the respective NIC is usually in the same country as the court they have to obey those rulings. Simply, ICANN defines the content of a database and it has self-imposed rules how it delegates part of that work to others. The rest of the world currently mirrors the database, but this might change if ICANN does something very stupid or is required to do so by others. In other words, it's about perceived power of various courts in what is actually a process based on global consensus.

RubyPinch 12y ago
how much can the rest of the world practically do though? only 3 of 13 root servers are outside of America's direct jurisdiction, and those servers splitting off would only cause confusing disarray, while America continues to be the main authority in the western world
- psykovsky 12y ago
  > only 3 of 13 root servers are outside of America's direct jurisdiction Time to change that?
pdabbadabba 12y ago
> You can't own a database record. Well not when you put it that way. But you certainly can have a property interest in a database record's being updated or not updated in a certain way. Think of it this way: your money on deposit at the bank is "just" a database record -- either at the band itself or, less directly, at the Federal Reserve. And this is just one example. Plenty of assets ultimately reduce to a database entry on a computer somewhere.

thirdtruck 12y ago

That's a good question. As I understand it, taking control of the .ir domain from Iran would make as much sense as taking control of the street address of their embassy. Not the embassy or the property it sits on, mind you, but the address itself. If my interpretation is correct, then the absurdity of the plaintiff's request is obvious.

pdabbadabba 12y ago
I'm not sure the analogy holds up since a TLD is separable from the IP it points to and, thus, can have separate commercial value. There is really no way to do this (that I am aware of) with street addresses.
- thirdtruck 12y ago
  Someone else (perhaps the EFF) made the point that the TLD's whole value is derived from how it points to Iran's IP addresses instead of anywhere else. Does this comparison make more sense? TLDs as a combination of a street address and the name of the business at the address; if either one is out of sync (e.g. the store moved), then the combination is worthless.
astrodust 12y ago
Is three any legal precedent for owning a street address? Isn't the postal service or municipality at liberty to renumber things as they see fit? I know several people that have had to "move", file change of address forms, even though they're in the same physical structure.
- thirdtruck 12y ago
  The latter makes sense. At the same time, neither the postal service or municipalities have the liberty to say that Best Buy is at a given address when you'll actually find a Fry's. Well, they can claim it, but no one's going to believe them after they make the trip. I think that's the big difference: The Iran TLD isn't just "owned" by the country, the TLD is supposed to factually represent the location of the country's IPs. It's similar to how only government agencies or the like are supposed to have .gov domains.

jacquesm 12y ago

The relevant authority is IANA. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1591#section-4 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1591#section-4 And I don't think there is a 'clawback procedure'. I'm very curious what would have happened if this judge had actually sided with the plaintiffs. Possibly a re-run of January 28, 1998, but this time with teeth.