4 ms·

https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/ https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/ http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/ http://www.catb.org/~

https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/ https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/ http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/ http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/ > I think you have it backwards. It's the new vision of computers (walled gardens, all the interesting logic hidden away in data centers, content consumption appliances instead of real computers) that is pale and sickly. Yes, these new trends are worrisome. But it's not the first time! I firmly believe that we'd all be better off if THIS guy had been the one to introduce computers to the common man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMzojQFyMo0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMzojQFyMo0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOf4EMN6-XA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOf4EMN6-XA To this day, Microsoft is putting computers in schools--but not LOGO, not free software, not unix, not lisp, not crates of disposable m68ks and bread boards... Nope, they are putting products in front of new generations eyeballs. Data can trump anecdotes, and it should when a culture believes they are doing the right thing but things are still going poorly and nobody understands why--at those times, by all means, collect some data and analyze it! But when "everybody knows" we're doing something wrong, and things are going poorly, then for the love of god use some common sense and stop doing it! The whole planet got 0wned by MS before many of us here were born--certainly before most of us were competent. So this is what we've got, this is where we are. Big picture: Where do we go from here? Immediate situation: don't become part of a new generation of MS fanboys. We don't need that.

throwawaykf05 12y ago
The first link is an interesting tale of technical gamesmanship, but I don't see much bad about Microsoft in there. Other than the author's manager's empty threat to sue him, which is more of an individual case. I haven't heard of Microsoft suing employees are frequently as, say, Amazon actually does. As for the Halloween documents, come on, 1) you're going to cite ESR, really? and 2) that boils down to "they said something bad about my religion / OS of choice". Marketing strategy commonly involves belittling your competitors. I laughed along at the Mac vs PC ads, even though I knew most of them were simply hyperbole. > But when "everybody knows" we're doing something wrong, and things are going poorly, then for the love of god use some common sense and stop doing it! 1) Just like "everyone knew" the earth is flat? 2) "Everyone knows" Microsoft is "doing something wrong" only if you don't step out of the HN / Silicon Valley bubble. You and PG and thousands others might think MS is "irrelevant" and "dead" and "evil" and "produces crappy software", but it's trivially disproved by noting that it has consistently been in the top-5 brands worldwide by many different rankings (google it) for many years. We may not need MS fanboys, but we sure has hell don't need MS haters who base their beliefs on incorrect information.
- daveloyall 12y ago
  1a) I've cited ESR, really! 1b and 2b) I think you've made my point. So are we going to tell the rest of the world, or let them dangle?

throwawaykf05 12y ago

The first link is an interesting tale of technical gamesmanship, but I don't see much bad about Microsoft in there. Other than the author's manager's empty threat to sue him, which is more of an individual case. I haven't heard of Microsoft suing employees are frequently as, say, Amazon actually does. As for the Halloween documents, come on, 1) you're going to cite ESR, really? and 2) that boils down to "they said something bad about my religion / OS of choice". Marketing strategy commonly involves belittling your competitors. I laughed along at the Mac vs PC ads, even though I knew most of them were simply hyperbole. > But when "everybody knows" we're doing something wrong, and things are going poorly, then for the love of god use some common sense and stop doing it! 1) Just like "everyone knew" the earth is flat? 2) "Everyone knows" Microsoft is "doing something wrong" only if you don't step out of the HN / Silicon Valley bubble. You and PG and thousands others might think MS is "irrelevant" and "dead" and "evil" and "produces crappy software", but it's trivially disproved by noting that it has consistently been in the top-5 brands worldwide by many different rankings (google it) for many years. We may not need MS fanboys, but we sure has hell don't need MS haters who base their beliefs on incorrect information.

daveloyall 12y ago
1a) I've cited ESR, really! 1b and 2b) I think you've made my point. So are we going to tell the rest of the world, or let them dangle?