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Exactly. The real problem with fat gain/loss isn't sedentary vs. active lifestyles, it's calorie consumption. This is why smokers who never work out are usually

by dkrich 12y ago

Exactly. The real problem with fat gain/loss isn't sedentary vs. active lifestyles, it's calorie consumption. This is why smokers who never work out are usually extremely thin- they typically eat very little. That isn't of course to suggest that that is healthier than being a non-smoker who is overweight, but rather to show in an extreme case that for fat loss exercise is extremely overrated while simple calorie restriction is not given nearly enough attention. The formula that I know works for me is calorie restriction and limiting carb/sugar intake as much as possible. This requires rethinking what is pretty much considered gospel in the U.S. Pretty much all breakfast foods other than eggs are just sugar and carbs and extremely fattening. Additionally, most meals in U.S. restaurants are about three times the size of what is actually needed to sufficiently sustain you until your next meal. If you want to lose weight and keep it off, increase your protein intake and cut your overall calorie and sugar intake.

prostoalex 12y ago
> The formula that I know works for me is calorie restriction and limiting carb/sugar intake as much as possible. The latter might be more effective than the former. Dr. Atkins adopters have challenged people to gain weight on the high fat / high protein diet, and those who took up the challenge simply could not "fatten up" - after a while they could consume only so much meat, cheese, fish and green veggies before feeling completely satiated. So there is a hard practical limit on number of calories consumed on a protein/fat diet. Compare that to carbohydrate-related cravings, where people talk about having just another [calorie-laden] scone, cookie, or piece of candy, and seemingly losing track of consumption.
- letstryagain 12y ago
  > Dr. Atkins has challenged people to gain weight Where can I read about this?
  - prostoalex 12y ago
    This should open up the same book I linked up above http://books.google.com/books?id=Xdm40JUD9HwC&pg=PA310&lpg=PA310&dq=%22it+seemed+impossible+to+fatten+up+their+subjects+on+high-fat%22&source=bl&ots=aNneR6ICx7&sig=vlZc87iy4Hb19Mf8wMJZImRGO6o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4jFkVJypE4W0yATvn4KgBA&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22it%20seemed%20impossible%20to%20fatten%20up%20their%20subjects%20on%20high-fat%22&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=Xdm40JUD9HwC&pg=PA310&lpg=P...
    - letstryagain 12y ago
      I've read Gary Taubes and I do have that book but I can't find this section. Which page is it on?
      - prostoalex 12y ago
        Hmmm, I'm on Kindle, so that's no help. It's towards the end of "Fattening Diets" chapter, if you scroll dow a bit through Google Books preview.
rdtsc 12y ago
> Pretty much all breakfast foods other than eggs are just sugar and carbs and extremely fattening. I never understood that. I came from another country and live here now for many years. I don't get it how breakfast is a completely acceptable time to eat just dessert food -- pancakes and syrop, waffles, oatmeal smothered in sugar honey and cinnamon, cereal, even "healthy" yogurt with sugar in it, toast with jam on it. Not saying I don't do it, I eat those things to once in a while without thinking much about it, but in general looking at it, it just seem so strange. There is the whole "breakfast is the main meal of the day" mantra. Is that really true? Not sure anymore. Maybe it is something created by cereal and bacon producers out there... For the curious, for breakfast, I am used to eating porridge -- buckweat, wheat, oatmeal with butter and salt. Or just rye (I call it "black") bread and butter (yeah I know bread is sugar too to some degree). Coldcuts, cheese, smoked fish. Not all healthy and good but most are not sweet. Something that is hard to give up is fatty foods, I like bacon, olive oil on my things, even eat whole cured and spiced pork fat. I would cut slices of it and eat it as a snak. But I am almost underweight for my height.
- SoftwareMaven 12y ago
  There is no credible evidence that breakfast, as eaten as the morning meal before, say, lunch, has any special significance. There is credible evidence that intermittent fasting, which often includes skipping breakfast, has benefits. A hypothesis about what was causing heart disease coupled with the marketing might of the sugar and grain industries replaced bacon and eggs with Lucky Charms, and American health has gone downhill since (and the hypothesis was wrong, but the dietetic world still has trouble admitting it because it would have to admit it has actively harmed people's health. Cognitive dissonance at its best). Don't give up the fatty foods. They are the foundation of a good diet.
DanBC 12y ago
Exercise and diet combined is more effective than either alone. You get the health benefits from exercise, not from calorie reduction. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003817.pub3/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003817... > The 43 studies included 3476 participants. Although significant heterogeneity in some of the main effects' analyses limited ability to pool effect sizes across some studies, a number of pooled effect sizes were calculated. When compared with no treatment, exercise resulted in small weight losses across studies. Exercise combined with diet resulted in a greater weight reduction than diet alone (WMD - 1.0 kg; 95% confidence interval (CI) -1.3 to -0.7). Increasing exercise intensity increased the magnitude of weight loss (WMD - 1.5 kg; 95% CI -2.3 to -0.7). There were significant differences in other outcome measures such as serum lipids, blood pressure and fasting plasma glucose. Exercise as a sole weight loss intervention resulted in significant reductions in diastolic blood pressure (WMD - 2 mmHg; 95% CI -4 to -1), triglycerides (WMD - 0.2 mmol/L; 95% CI -0.3 to -0.1) and fasting glucose (WMD - 0.2 mmol/L; 95% CI -0.3 to -0.1). Higher intensity exercise resulted in greater reduction in fasting serum glucose than lower intensity exercise (WMD - 0.3 mmol/L; 95% CI -0.5 to -0.2). No data were identified on adverse events, quality of life, morbidity, costs or on mortality. > The results of this review support the use of exercise as a weight loss intervention, particularly when combined with dietary change. Exercise is associated with improved cardiovascular disease risk factors even if no weight is lost.

by dkrich 12y ago

prostoalex 12y ago

> The formula that I know works for me is calorie restriction and limiting carb/sugar intake as much as possible. The latter might be more effective than the former. Dr. Atkins adopters have challenged people to gain weight on the high fat / high protein diet, and those who took up the challenge simply could not "fatten up" - after a while they could consume only so much meat, cheese, fish and green veggies before feeling completely satiated. So there is a hard practical limit on number of calories consumed on a protein/fat diet. Compare that to carbohydrate-related cravings, where people talk about having just another [calorie-laden] scone, cookie, or piece of candy, and seemingly losing track of consumption.

letstryagain 12y ago
> Dr. Atkins has challenged people to gain weight Where can I read about this?
- prostoalex 12y ago
  This should open up the same book I linked up above http://books.google.com/books?id=Xdm40JUD9HwC&pg=PA310&lpg=PA310&dq=%22it+seemed+impossible+to+fatten+up+their+subjects+on+high-fat%22&source=bl&ots=aNneR6ICx7&sig=vlZc87iy4Hb19Mf8wMJZImRGO6o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4jFkVJypE4W0yATvn4KgBA&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22it%20seemed%20impossible%20to%20fatten%20up%20their%20subjects%20on%20high-fat%22&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=Xdm40JUD9HwC&pg=PA310&lpg=P...
  - letstryagain 12y ago
    I've read Gary Taubes and I do have that book but I can't find this section. Which page is it on?
    - prostoalex 12y ago
      Hmmm, I'm on Kindle, so that's no help. It's towards the end of "Fattening Diets" chapter, if you scroll dow a bit through Google Books preview.

rdtsc 12y ago

> Pretty much all breakfast foods other than eggs are just sugar and carbs and extremely fattening. I never understood that. I came from another country and live here now for many years. I don't get it how breakfast is a completely acceptable time to eat just dessert food -- pancakes and syrop, waffles, oatmeal smothered in sugar honey and cinnamon, cereal, even "healthy" yogurt with sugar in it, toast with jam on it. Not saying I don't do it, I eat those things to once in a while without thinking much about it, but in general looking at it, it just seem so strange. There is the whole "breakfast is the main meal of the day" mantra. Is that really true? Not sure anymore. Maybe it is something created by cereal and bacon producers out there... For the curious, for breakfast, I am used to eating porridge -- buckweat, wheat, oatmeal with butter and salt. Or just rye (I call it "black") bread and butter (yeah I know bread is sugar too to some degree). Coldcuts, cheese, smoked fish. Not all healthy and good but most are not sweet. Something that is hard to give up is fatty foods, I like bacon, olive oil on my things, even eat whole cured and spiced pork fat. I would cut slices of it and eat it as a snak. But I am almost underweight for my height.

SoftwareMaven 12y ago
There is no credible evidence that breakfast, as eaten as the morning meal before, say, lunch, has any special significance. There is credible evidence that intermittent fasting, which often includes skipping breakfast, has benefits. A hypothesis about what was causing heart disease coupled with the marketing might of the sugar and grain industries replaced bacon and eggs with Lucky Charms, and American health has gone downhill since (and the hypothesis was wrong, but the dietetic world still has trouble admitting it because it would have to admit it has actively harmed people's health. Cognitive dissonance at its best). Don't give up the fatty foods. They are the foundation of a good diet.

DanBC 12y ago

Exercise and diet combined is more effective than either alone. You get the health benefits from exercise, not from calorie reduction. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003817.pub3/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003817... > The 43 studies included 3476 participants. Although significant heterogeneity in some of the main effects' analyses limited ability to pool effect sizes across some studies, a number of pooled effect sizes were calculated. When compared with no treatment, exercise resulted in small weight losses across studies. Exercise combined with diet resulted in a greater weight reduction than diet alone (WMD - 1.0 kg; 95% confidence interval (CI) -1.3 to -0.7). Increasing exercise intensity increased the magnitude of weight loss (WMD - 1.5 kg; 95% CI -2.3 to -0.7). There were significant differences in other outcome measures such as serum lipids, blood pressure and fasting plasma glucose. Exercise as a sole weight loss intervention resulted in significant reductions in diastolic blood pressure (WMD - 2 mmHg; 95% CI -4 to -1), triglycerides (WMD - 0.2 mmol/L; 95% CI -0.3 to -0.1) and fasting glucose (WMD - 0.2 mmol/L; 95% CI -0.3 to -0.1). Higher intensity exercise resulted in greater reduction in fasting serum glucose than lower intensity exercise (WMD - 0.3 mmol/L; 95% CI -0.5 to -0.2). No data were identified on adverse events, quality of life, morbidity, costs or on mortality. > The results of this review support the use of exercise as a weight loss intervention, particularly when combined with dietary change. Exercise is associated with improved cardiovascular disease risk factors even if no weight is lost.