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It continually amazes me that Americans can perpetuate the myth that their government is a democratic, moral force in the world given everything they have done,
by Mikeb85 12y ago
It continually amazes me that Americans can perpetuate the myth that their government is a democratic, moral force in the world given everything they have done, and are still doing...
- JoeAltmaier 12y agoThat's actually the best hope for America, the expectation that we should do good, do the best we can.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- comice 12y agoI don't see how perpetuating the myth helps with achieving that.
- GauntletWizard 12y agoBecause "That's just the way things are done" is the best way to continue horrible practices. Oh, I'm just going to do this little bit of bribery/corruption/racism; it's not really as bad as practice X in the past. Understanding them is the best way to promote bad behaviors. People are naturally afraid of the unfamiliar. There's a limit; This is the same argument made by moral crusaders who're against sex education, and that ultimately causes harm. But it's the argument ignored by the D.A.R.E. program organizers, and that has a storied history of being shown (sometimes) to increase drug use[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_Abuse_Resistance_Education#Studies_on_effectiveness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_Abuse_Resistance_Educatio...
- dllthomas 12y agoIt helps and it hurts. As GauntletWizard gets into, it helps when individuals asked (by individuals or circumstance) to be bad feel like they'd be doing something wrong and unusual, which people are less likely to do than things they just feel are wrong. It hurts when people who have already decided to do bad things exploit it.
- bduerst 12y agoMaybe for some cases, but good is relative, subjective term. Good for whom? Did the FBI agents drafting this think they were doing their best to do good?
- rooster8 12y agoAny system as large and complicated as this one will have failures. Our job is to learn from the past and try to prevent it from happening again in the future.
- jafaku 12y agoEven if you had a perfect corruption-proof government design... What can you do about it? You are not in charge, and have no way to influence the people in charge.
- AnimalMuppet 12y agoEven if you had a perfect corruption-proof government implementation, you still have humans composing that government, and therefore it won't be corruption-proof for long.
- dllthomas 12y agoI don't think a design could be said to be "corruption-proof" without taking into account the elements that compose it. That may or may not be most of a proof of the non-existence of "corruption-proof" government.
- AnimalMuppet 12y agoThat's engineering for you. Examine the failure modes, and try to design the next system so it can't fail in any of the known ways. In fact, that's what the authors of the Constitution were trying to do...
- nraynaud 12y ago... and the authors of quite a few international treaties and systems that the US refuses to submit to (the main one being Rome).
- krrrh 12y agoAnd they did an incredible job all things considered. It's worth noticing that even quite advanced countries like France unironically put numbers before the word "Republic" to keep track of which edition they are on. The longevity of the U.S. Constitution is simply unprecedented.
- res0nat0r 12y agoThe American government is not a single entity, it is comprised of many people both good and bad.
- jafaku 12y agoAnd with the magic of compartmentalization, both kinds of people can work together to create a horrible organization that does all kinds of evil around the world.
- Mangalor 12y agoActually, compartmentalization allows the two to work together and only enact what they both agree to. The results are not always terrible, they're a mix.
- jafaku 12y agoNah, you'll do whatever you are ordered to or lose your job. You don't need to know why. Scratch that, here's why: freedom. Now you can feel good about that wire you just cut, that letter you just signed, or that "terrorist" you tortured for years.
- waterlesscloud 12y agoAs compared to exactly which other government? Anywhere?
- jafaku 12y ago"Others do it therefore it's ok."
- Demiurge 12y ago"Reality is not a moral construct."
- njharman 12y agoComparisons are a Red Herring. The point is people erroneously "believe" in their government. That it does only the most necessarily evil and then only to bad people. Such beliefs are manifestly dangerous. They result in things such as Drug seizure laws, PATRIOT act, militarization of police, demonizaton of whistle blowers. DON'T trust authority, DON'T give authority powers assuming they will only be used for good, DO assume authority is lying, cheating, and evil.
- lavamantis 12y agoWhat people '"believe" in their government'? Do a search for "poll americans believing in government". Most polls will show < 50% of people are willing to state that they believe government officials on various issues. So, trust really isn't the problem. I agree with your last statement completely. The trick is to get people to get knowledgeable (or even care) about history and what is happening in the country. Right about now, it seems to be we're more tending towards "Brave New World" than "1984". If people could just turn off 30 minutes a day of their "Real Housewives" and focus on learning something new, about anything, we'd start fixing the problems.
- Smother_Teresa 12y agoIt amazes me that people still paint an entire population with one brush.
- thisjepisje 12y agoI find it funny how people feel offended as soon as you leave out the words "some" or "most".
- wuliwong 12y agoWhy do you think that is funny?
- thisjepisje 12y agoIt's like they want to be offended or something, don't you think? Isn't it pretty obvious that when someone says "Americans are silly people" they don't mean that literally every single American person is silly?
- lavamantis 12y agoI'm not sure it's all that obvious. That's pretty much the entire foundation of the very popular practices of "stereotyping" and "racism".
- jobu 12y ago"Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." - Winston Churchill
- dllthomas 12y agoI don't think the parent's point was that democracy is failing to do good, but that America is failing to do democracy.
- refurb 12y agoTell me what country isn't by your standards? Show me a list of democratic countries and I have no doubt I could dig up some really evil stuff on every single one of them. Don't take my comment as an excuse or an argument that's it's OK. Governments are run by humans which regularly mess up despite their high hopes.
- dllthomas 12y agoI don't understand why this was directed at me.
- refurb 12y agoYou said America is failing to do democracy By your standards, every country is failing to do democracy.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- dllthomas 12y agoIt was an attempted paraphrase of one party's position for two people who seemed to be talking past each other. It was not stated as my position.
- eyeareque 12y agoIn US schools we are taught from a young age about our "democracy" that we have here. By the time we realize it is all a big lie, we're much older. If only we were able to teach our youngsters what really happens in politics in school.
- grecy 12y ago> By the time we realize it is all a big lie, we're much older And so far in debt and worry about healthcare you never again get a change to have your head above water and have a look around.
- snowwrestler 12y agoWhat's the alternative, to just throw up our hands and sob into tea? What you call a myth, we call an ideal. Are we living up to it right now? No. That doesn't mean we should discard it. Quite the opposite, in fact.